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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking to transition over to Raw feeding.  I've read the sticky links and talked to some people, but I feel like the more I read the more confused I am.  I will probably just start with some chicken RMB's and see how it goes, maybe then I'll either buy in bulk or buy premade for convenience.  But I am weary of not balancing the meals properly.  It almost seems too simple.  Is a chicken back or a few chicken wings really a complete "meal"?

What is the consensus....are grains, veggies, fruits (or carbs of any type) necessary?  Or are they just used as filler calories?  I have read some Raw feeders say they never feed carbs, and others seemingly add them every day.
 

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I too am looking into feeding the raw food for Templeton.  I would love some more info from anyone who is feeding the raw diet.  I'm currently making the transition to the "ultimate diet" and Temp seems to be liking it so far.
 

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I do veggies, and some fruits - no carbs.  As discussed I use Oma's premade which is 70% meat/bone, 10 % organ meat and 20% veggies.    I also add in Salmon Oil daily (winter) and some Norw. Kelp.  They also get sprinkes of Garlic.    They get treats that can be yogurt / pumkin mixture frozen in ice cube trays.  They get some cut up Chix hearts, marrow bones three times a week.  

It varries never the same meal twice.   I have asked around to see if I am missing or needing something and consenses says I am pretty good.   Iam thinking of adding in some tripe too if I can stand the smell.   Erik (Bumpy) and I started raw pretty much the same time with out dogs.  The K guys right as pups.  He is more educated and is doing non-premade raw with necks and backs etc.  He has had great success, and his dogs are looking great.  I am planning on adding neck next month.  Just at the moment , the premade is working and convient for me.

There are different types of premade.   The kinds like Nature's Variety that put all sorts of ingredients into their mixtures.   Omas (the one I use) only has about 5 ingred.   In a perfect world its a lot cheaper to do it yourself, once you understand what your dog needs.   I think Billingworst's book is pretty good.
 

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I think Carina MacDonald's book has the most balanced information on a raw diet - http://www.raw-dogs.com/  The entire premise is to approximate what a dog would eat in the wild, so you want to have mostly raw meat and bones, some offal, and yes, a little bit of vegetable matter and fruit.  (Wolves don't eat the stomach contents of large prey, but they eat the stomach itself and the intestines, all of which do have some semi-digested ruminant foods (vegetation) in them.  They also eat fruit that's fallen on the ground, or berries off of the bush - not in any significant amount, but it is a natural part of their diet.)  So figure out about how much of a prey animal is meat, bone, offal, veggies, make adjustments for small prey (more bone and veggies, since the whole thing is generally eaten) vs. large prey (more meat, as leg bones and stomach contents are not consumed), see what works best for your dog as far as meat-to-bone and veggie amounts, and feed accordingly.  It's really not rocket science. :)  Carina's book goes into more specific detail and discusses various types of foods, supplements, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You're right, basically it's very simple.  I just think the massive amount of information on the subject leaves you unsure.  Then I say to myself hey I can feed a chicken carcass, what could be more simpler than that.  No one in the wild is balancing meals and measuring ingredients for wolves :D

Is it ok if I start out with some raw meals and some kibble?  I've read that many people say the kibble should be a grainless type.  I currently feed Canidae, its really the only one that seems to agree with him.  But I know it's not grainless
 

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I am feeding some raw and kibble (also canidae) at the moment.  Like Hanna said, I feed them at different meals, not always 12 hours apart but I try to make it at least 8 hours apart.  If I had a larger freezer so i could buy in bulk and save some $- I wouldn't be feeding kibble at all!
It is really easy to over think feeding raw, there is sooo much info out there.  Once you realize that we don't even think about our own diets that much it becomes much easier.  I mean- people aren't concerned with having a completely balanced diet at every meal, instead it evens out over a few days or a week.  So it is ok to feed RMBs for one meal and then some offal added to the next meal.
Personally, i don't think there is a need to really feed fruits and veggies- but tripe might be good occasionally. Then again, some people swear by feeding fruits and vegs- so its up to you ;)
 

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It really is very simple. . . Some just make it seem harder than it really needs to be. :)

What I do is this: Buy whole chickens from the grocery and cut them up according to this chart: http://gourmetsleuth.com/cutupchicken.htm

Feed one chunk three times per day with 1 tsp of fruit, egg and veggie mush. If the dog starts losing weight, feed more. If the dog gets fat, feed less.

That's it.

If I get spunky, I throw in the occasional Salmon oil or Vitamin E tab, and I do use a digestive enzyme/probiotic combo called DogZymes, but it really is very simple.

Admittedly, my dogs are also garbage disposals. :p If we have eggs and toast in the mornings, I give them any left overs. If we have rice for dinner, I toss the rest in. If we have left over hamburger, I throw a bit in their bowls. Very little goes to waste around here. :)
 

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I really want to feed raw but ive been hesitant because id like to buy in bulk and dont have the room so i am considering switching to grainless kibble over the next couple months and giving treats such as chicken hearts etc...i feed organ meet chicken hearts etc occaisonally as a treat and he seem to REALLY love them but grainless kibble is my next step.
 

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I used a product called Master Choice made by Know Better Dog Food.  It actually comes from Canada.  My dogs did very well on it and it is easy to use as you just add the raw meat and mix it up.  My holistic vet recommended it.  

Nano
 

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Discussion Starter #12
BurningRiver\";p=\"82271 said:
It really is very simple. . . Some just make it seem harder than it really needs to be. :)

What I do is this: Buy whole chickens from the grocery and cut them up according to this chart: http://gourmetsleuth.com/cutupchicken.htm

Feed one chunk three times per day with 1 tsp of fruit, egg and veggie mush. If the dog starts losing weight, feed more. If the dog gets fat, feed less.

That's it.

If I get spunky, I throw in the occasional Salmon oil or Vitamin E tab, and I do use a digestive enzyme/probiotic combo called DogZymes, but it really is very simple.

Admittedly, my dogs are also garbage disposals. :p If we have eggs and toast in the mornings, I give them any left overs. If we have rice for dinner, I toss the rest in. If we have left over hamburger, I throw a bit in their bowls. Very little goes to waste around here. :)
I really like your idea of buying whole chickens and cutting them up.  So basically none of that goes to waste?  You feed all parts of the chicken?   Do you cut them all up before freezing, or do you just get one chicken a week, cut it up and leave it in the fridge so its ready?

Also as far as fruits and veggies, does pretty much anything seedless go?  Just throw it in a blender I guess.  

I might try this idea, I don't have a problem cutting up raw meat.  Thanks for that great link!

update:  I found at my local grocery store "whole cut-up chicken" that is packaged at the store.  I talked to the butcher and he said they don't take anything out.  It was basically the same price as a whole chicken too.  Very psyched!
 

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I buy in bulk because it's cheaper. You can get 12 3lb birds per case. I pay .89 per lb. I freeze them whole and cut them up as I go along -- I leave them whole because we eat them as well. :) I feed all parts of the birds, including giblets and livers. I feed three times per day, so each meal is a chunk of meat about the size of my clenched fist. One of my bitches needs more food to keep weight on though, so she gets about a fist and a half per meal. As you can tell, it's really not an exact science. ;)

If you found them already cut up, that's wonderful! Cutting them up is the hardest part about feeding them. :lol:

Good luck!
 

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As for fruits and veggies, here's a link that may help: http://www.diamondpaws.com/health/barfveg.htm

Basically, I just freeze anything and everything that is on the verge of going bad. I grind them up once every two weeks in the blender with 2 cloves of garlic, a tsp of olive oil and 3 egg shells. Very little goes to waste in our kitchen. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for the info, good stuff.  It helps to get creative.

Well day 1 of raw, Oggie licked a chicken wing for 15 minutes then walked away and took a nap.   :lol:
 
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my doggies don't seem to like raw foods at all..I added some raw chicken liver...they eventually ate it...but...it took like 40 minutes...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I wouldn't start with liver, its too rich to start with.  I'm not even going to try that for a few weeks. He seemed to be excited about the chicken, he just has to learn how to chew it.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm a newbie so I'm just starting.  I bought a whole chicken cut-up for 5 bucks.

Ok attempt #2, I held the chicken wing until Oggie started chomping on it.  Eventually he realized it would be easier to break the bone to get the meat than to lick it off the bone.  CRUNCH.   Was surprised at his bite power because he broke through the bones no problem.  Down it went.  Now he wants more.  I'd say it was a success!
 

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It took Kash a bit to learn how to eat a wing!  ha ha ha.  Hanna takes them down with no problem what so ever.

Raw can be economical and not.  It  all depends on where you find things, at what price and what you are using (premade vs, RMBs).   It you take some time, you can find a way to make it economical.
 
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