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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone.


Just got another boxer pup.


My first one lived 12 years. Cancer took her.


My new one is 14 weeks in this video.


She likes the hot tub. I started bringing her in as a way to cuddle, and to give her a bath. The chlorine makes her flash color pop. Anyway she started to ask to go in, and she seems to enjoy the water. I made a video to share with ya'll.


 

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Oh my goodness, so precious. She is beautiful!

Our boxer was 9 years old when he passed away from cancer. It is not easy. We got another puppy (8 months now) like you and he has eased the pain of our loss. He makes us laugh and smile everyday.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply.


I waited a year and a half before getting another puppy.


My last one was special to me. She was the best dog ever. This new one just isn't the same. sigh.


She's sweet though, and I'm sure she'll turn out fine.


My last one aimed to please, this one not so much. She just doesn't care what I want her to do. She is very aloof.


I have decided to get a shock collar. See if some stick helps, cause I don't always have the carrot with me.



I used a shock collar with my last one when she was a puppy, and it seemed to really help her focus on what I wanted. I only had to shock her once, then just the beep was enough. It didn't take long and then the beep wasn't even needed, so I only had to use the dang thing for 10 days or whatever it was. The things are expensive. I'd hoped I didn't need to buy one.
 

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Beautiful puppy. Depending on how old she is I wouldn't necessarily go with a shock collar. I'm presently training a 7 month old standard poodle. Mine is now getting better at focusing but it took some time and I imagine will take another year or so. I've often thought about the shock collar or vibration but always put it off on both my boxer and poodle but we are doing well without.
 

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The shock collar is a tool mostly used on older dogs that have developed bad habits and alternative training has not worked. With such a young pup its my opinion that gaining the trust of the dog is most important and them wanting to please you because your fun. I think a shock collar would not help a developing pup gain trust but would make it more fearful. I'm no expert though. But I've had lots of dogs in my lifetime. Once your fun and they trust you they want to please you. I am not a "pure" positive training type person, I do believe a dog needs to follow the rules but I incorporate it when training my dogs. My boxer was pretty easy but he learned the basics, all with praise, no treats, he wasn't food motivated in the least. He learned no jump no bite just by correction, knee up to knock off balance and bite was just replaced with an appropriate chew, or a yelp. Now this poodle is food motivated , and was a more difficult puppy my arms had bloody catches on them for about a month while he learned no bite, it wasn't his intention but he plays with his mouth open and would snag my arm while jumping. Poodles love to jump. now he will still jump but not on me and is getting better at 7 months. He also knows all his basics. For heeling I had to lure him by holding a treat at my side while he got the idea of Oh you want me at your side ok. After awhile I lured, then didn't and back and forth. He no longer needs a treat though once in awhile I will reward him with one and always with praise. Let me tell you he was work and I thought about that shock collar but he trusts me. Now I do use a tool I use a prong collar and I have been taught the proper use. Both dogs are strong for me and while I don't correct them with it, they correct themselves should they inspire to go off track and yank or pull . I seldom need it on the puppy anymore but I do have it on him because I"m old. The boxer now at almost 4 is reliable and is only walked on a flat collar. Why would you want to use it on such a young pup when they are alternatives? The one thing I have learned is that training takes time and continues on for the lifetime of the dog though not as often or stringent. We all have our own methods, but thats my take.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.


I will discuss it with my partner, and reconsider.


I do not care to try to correct fearfulness.
 

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Yeah I'm kind of with Linda on this one. Think there are so many other ways to train a pup, especially that young, without using an e-collar. imo. You could create an fearful/anxious pup using a collar at such a young age.

I was able to train pretty much everything I wanted except a solid recall off leash at the beach or open spaces. After about 2 years of trying everything, I did get an e-collar specifically for the recall. I did a couple hours of research and asked questions before using it, and couldn't be happier with the results. I'm not anti e-collar I would just use it more as a last resort, imo.
 

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A shock collar for a 15 week old puppy? Please reconsider this decision. She’s a puppy, she’s going to do puppy things. Give her some time to live and learn in a more constructive environment before resorting to something like a shock collar.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Maybe you guys could help with improvement in the potty outside department.


She's showing improvement here, so she's doing well, but she's having trouble with the idea of the command "out" means go outside and go.


Just this morning, when she woke up (I knew she had to go bad, and NOW), I opened the door, gave the command, and she started trotting off into the house. Sigh. That would not end well.


She wants me to come out with her. She refuses to "go potty" on command. She does it when she wants. like she's a cat or something. sigh.


A shock collar wouldn't work with this anyway.


Anyway, this morning I shoved her out the door, and left her out there. She goes eventually. If I'm not careful, she'll come in and pee right away, cause she's not "getting it" really.


I've been easy on her about going in the house, voice tone is sufficient, to let here know. she knows. she's learned to go hide, but when I'm diligent about getting her out, no accidents.



Any help would be appreciated.



Also thanks for the other folks taking time to reply on the e-collar topic.
 

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Maybe you guys could help with improvement in the potty outside department.


She's showing improvement here, so she's doing well, but she's having trouble with the idea of the command "out" means go outside and go.


Just this morning, when she woke up (I knew she had to go bad, and NOW), I opened the door, gave the command, and she started trotting off into the house. Sigh. That would not end well.


She wants me to come out with her. She refuses to "go potty" on command. She does it when she wants. like she's a cat or something. sigh.


A shock collar wouldn't work with this anyway.


Anyway, this morning I shoved her out the door, and left her out there. She goes eventually. If I'm not careful, she'll come in and pee right away, cause she's not "getting it" really.


I've been easy on her about going in the house, voice tone is sufficient, to let here know. she knows. she's learned to go hide, but when I'm diligent about getting her out, no accidents.



Any help would be appreciated.



Also thanks for the other folks taking time to reply on the e-collar topic.
I would bring her out on the leash for awhile and find a word you like, like "potty" or whatever you want. Use that word and when she goes, praise the heck out her. I had no choice to use a leash, no fence in my yard. It still took the longest for my boxer compared to any other dog I owned. Not sure if its a boxer thing.

He would sneak a pee in here and there, and it could be right after he just went outside. Crazy dog. If I caught him, I would give a stern no, put on the leash and out we went. Patience is probably best and my guy tested mine no doubt.
 

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I’ll echo what Matt said...you should take her out on a leash. And wait until she does her business. This can take some time too...upwards of 15 minutes sometimes. But it’s the only way she’s going to learn. You can’t just shove a 15 week puppy out the door and expect her to know what you want her to do. It’s going to take some effort on your part. She’ll come around and get it but it takes time and patience...she’s still very young and it’s a good idea to remember that fact.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
it takes time and patience...she’s still very young and it’s a good idea to remember that fact.

ok.


This sounds right. I suspect she is doing good. Georgia (my first boxer) was leaving turds in the basement for years IIRC. It was her weak spot. Then after we fixed her she got the incontinence too. We put up with it cause she was so good otherwise.


Ive good a good handle on knowing when she needs to go. So I guess I'll need to wait for her.


You can’t just shove a 15 week puppy out the door and expect her to know what you want her to do.

But what if she hasn't peed in like 10 hours..... I figured she'd go. She would in the house. This I know.
 

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An "E-Collar" is not a "magical" Dog Training tool??? It is also ... not a tool of last resort??
Like any "tool" ... it can be easily abused. It's proper use ... depends on the user!

Facts are facts, I don't like to use "any tools myself. I am the Slip Lead Leash guy. I don't care what a dogs issues are a "SLL" is the only tool I use and if you work in rescue a SLL is the only tool rescues will allow you to use on there dogs! So if you can't use a SLL properly , they you can't help those dogs ... its pretty much that simple.

Now that said ... "any tool improperly used can be abused! And for "me" the only case where "I" would consider the use of an E-Collar on a 15 week "PUPPY" is if the dog were deaf! Short of that ... the answer to "should I use an E-Collar on my 15 week old puppy would be uh ... "NO!"

Now that said now that said ... there is always "that guy!" And although he does not seem to be around here anymore?? We did have a member here that did use an "E-Collar and a Prong Collar on a very young Boxer Pup.

Smokey and the Bandit! He was here and he used those tools on a very young Boxer ... his "Puppy" was fully off leashed trained and was also trained in the "Place Command" with distractions ... at a very young age!!

I spoke with him in "PM's" and the only criticisms I had was that I seriously, doubted that the average Boxer owner could do what he had done???

But he ... also "Showed his work!" And it is on "YouTube!" WHy he he is no longer here??? I have no idea??? Buit what he did is still there and anyone can see it! The only thing I said to him ... was that I doubt the "Average Member" could do what he did with those tools without causing "Damage??"

As for me ... I don't consider the E-Collar" a tool of last resort?? But i'm kinda "anal" and the only way I would consider using abn E-Collar on a puppy at that age ... was if the puppy were deaf! Short of that .... it's just a matter of time and patience. :)
 

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ant...WE also took ours out on a leash for a long time to one area of the yard basically and would tell him to potty, he did and we immediately praised him a lot. He was totally potty trained or we were almost immediately. I always take my dogs on a leash as I want them to associate leash, means out & potty, loose & free in house not. LOL Of course in the very very beginning there were maybe 2 accidents but I caught and said no/outside where I'd leash and take out. It was extra work but worth it. About a year ago I had knee replacement and my husband is not real steady on his feet, our daughter (he is her dog) usually will take him out but with work & school I help. I was not able to hold onto the leash/walker etc and we started him to go potty off leash. Now he does that easily though we will stand on the patio and watch to be s are he goes. Worked well for us and now Ido the same with the pup. I also feed at the same time every day so I know when its time. Our boxer will sort of hang by the door so I know he wants out and the pup will bark in my face and be annoying but really its a lot about schedule.
 

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An "E-Collar" is not a "magical" Dog Training tool??? It is also ... not a tool of last resort??
Like any "tool" ... it can be easily abused. It's proper use ... depends on the user!

Facts are facts, I don't like to use "any tools myself. I am the Slip Lead Leash guy. I don't care what a dogs issues are a "SLL" is the only tool I use and if you work in rescue a SLL is the only tool rescues will allow you to use on there dogs! So if you can't use a SLL properly , they you can't help those dogs ... its pretty much that simple.

Now that said ... "any tool improperly used can be abused! And for "me" the only case where "I" would consider the use of an E-Collar on a 15 week "PUPPY" is if the dog were deaf! Short of that ... the answer to "should I use an E-Collar on my 15 week old puppy would be uh ... "NO!"

Now that said now that said ... there is always "that guy!" And although he does not seem to be around here anymore?? We did have a member here that did use an "E-Collar and a Prong Collar on a very young Boxer Pup.

Smokey and the Bandit! He was here and he used those tools on a very young Boxer ... his "Puppy" was fully off leashed trained and was also trained in the "Place Command" with distractions ... at a very young age!!

I spoke with him in "PM's" and the only criticisms I had was that I seriously, doubted that the average Boxer owner could do what he had done???

But he ... also "Showed his work!" And it is on "YouTube!" WHy he he is no longer here??? I have no idea??? Buit what he did is still there and anyone can see it! The only thing I said to him ... was that I doubt the "Average Member" could do what he did with those tools without causing "Damage??"

As for me ... I don't consider the E-Collar" a tool of last resort?? But i'm kinda "anal" and the only way I would consider using abn E-Collar on a puppy at that age ... was if the puppy were deaf! Short of that .... it's just a matter of time and patience. :)
Disagree with you a bit here Chip. When I used the e-collar for his recall in wide open spaces it was a last resort. After 2 years of trying every training method(you name it I tried it) for a solid recall he only listened maybe 1/4 of the time. So I had 2 choices, either keep him on his leash all the time or let him off and have a 75% chance he could get into trouble. I didn't like those odds. So after watching a ton of videos on the proper use of it and consulting with Brian (bte2), i decided to give it a try. After one week of use, I now get a 100% recall, and almost never have to actually use it. Unless he sees some ducks, then I have to put the brakes on him. lol

I completely agree, I would not be using it on a puppy, since there is plenty of time to train, but for older dogs, if you research and talk to knowledgeable people and learn how to use it, I see nothing wrong with using the tool to proof certain behaviors.

You know me and I also strictly use the SLL. SLL is not going to teach solid recall.
 

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Disagree with you a bit here Chip. When I used the e-collar for his recall in wide open spaces it was a last resort. After 2 years of trying every training method(you name it I tried it) for a solid recall he only listened maybe 1/4 of the time. So I had 2 choices, either keep him on his leash all the time or let him off and have a 75% chance he could get into trouble. I didn't like those odds. So after watching a ton of videos on the proper use of it and consulting with Brian (bte2), i decided to give it a try. After one week of use, I now get a 100% recall, and almost never have to actually use it. Unless he sees some ducks, then I have to put the brakes on him. lol

I completely agree, I would not be using it on a puppy, since there is plenty of time to train, but for older dogs, if you research and talk to knowledgeable people and learn how to use it, I see nothing wrong with using the tool to proof certain behaviors.

You know me and I also strictly use the SLL. SLL is not going to teach solid recall.
Aww well ... I am certainly not going to take the "I'm for using an E-Collar on a 15 week puppy" position??

My position on "Advanced Tools" has evolved. IE, Prongs, E-Collars and the SLL (and the proper use of a SLL, and I consider the proper use of a SLL more of an (Art form then a skill???)

This is not really an E-Collar thread as such??? The OP made brief mention of that tool in passing and everybody had a cow, as it were. :)

I don't know what the stats are but either the Prong Collar or the E-Collar are most likely both the most misunderstood and easily abused tools in the history of Dog Training??

And at the heart of both options is the fact that first one has to understand how to properly use those tools and then "translate" what they think they know, into training there dog??? There is a high margin for error with that approach and if one gets it wrong, then the conclusion becomes ... well this tool sucks??

That is what happened to me with the Prong collar and my first dog. So I dropped the Prong from then on and went with a SLL, worked out fine. But then for awhile I went way far the other way and became anti Prong Collar??
But as I railed on and on, and it usually started with "Any tool improperly used can be abused ..." and on I went. But slowly it dawned on me, that well that is what I had done with a Prong Collar???

And once I understood that, I then realized ... it's not about the tool, it's about the user! "I" messed up with the "Prong Collar" but that did not mean ... there was anything wrong with the tool?? I was looking at the wrong end of the leash for a solution to my problem??

And I only came to understand because all the trainers I now was aware of ...all used a "Prong Collar and trained there how to properly do so. Thus it was "clearly not a problem with the tool, the problem was with the Prong was with me! :chair:

And the E-Collar with an unskilled user ... it's pretty much gonna be, the same deal?? I think I know what I'm doing so I'll proceed from there?? It usually does not work out to well?? And again the wrong conclusion gets drawn ie this tools sucks??

And yet again ... that conclusion is wrong. These days yet again all the trainers I tend to follow sigh all use an E-Collar and instruct there clients how to properly do so. (And I will add that most likely none of them recommend using one on a 15 week old puppy!)

And as I came to understand E-Collar training starts with a degree of E-Collar conditioning first (to teach them what the stim means??) And from there, E- Collar traing starts with ... "Off Leash Training.") As the way to turn the "stim off" is for the dog to get close to their owner.

But again I'm not advocating for using an E-Collar on a 15 week old puppy. The OP should just stick with basics. And in that ... they should find this interesting. :


The upside bucket is a touch pad and one will have to follow along, to see how that comes into play down the road. :)
 

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Aww well ... I am certainly not going to take the "I'm for using an E-Collar on a 15 week puppy" position??

My position on "Advanced Tools" has evolved. IE, Prongs, E-Collars and the SLL (and the proper use of a SLL, and I consider the proper use of a SLL more of an (Art form then a skill???)

This is not really an E-Collar thread as such??? The OP made brief mention of that tool in passing and everybody had a cow, as it were. :)

I don't know what the stats are but either the Prong Collar or the E-Collar are most likely both the most misunderstood and easily abused tools in the history of Dog Training??

And at the heart of both options is the fact that first one has to understand how to properly use those tools and then "translate" what they think they know, into training there dog??? There is a high margin for error with that approach and if one gets it wrong, then the conclusion becomes ... well this tool sucks??

That is what happened to me with the Prong collar and my first dog. So I dropped the Prong from then on and went with a SLL, worked out fine. But then for awhile I went way far the other way and became anti Prong Collar??
But as I railed on and on, and it usually started with "Any tool improperly used can be abused ..." and on I went. But slowly it dawned on me, that well that is what I had done with a Prong Collar???

And once I understood that, I then realized ... it's not about the tool, it's about the user! "I" messed up with the "Prong Collar" but that did not mean ... there was anything wrong with the tool?? I was looking at the wrong end of the leash for a solution to my problem??

And I only came to understand because all the trainers I now was aware of ...all used a "Prong Collar and trained there how to properly do so. Thus it was "clearly not a problem with the tool, the problem was with the Prong was with me! :chair:

And the E-Collar with an unskilled user ... it's pretty much gonna be, the same deal?? I think I know what I'm doing so I'll proceed from there?? It usually does not work out to well?? And again the wrong conclusion gets drawn ie this tools sucks??

And yet again ... that conclusion is wrong. These days yet again all the trainers I tend to follow sigh all use an E-Collar and instruct there clients how to properly do so. (And I will add that most likely none of them recommend using one on a 15 week old puppy!)

And as I came to understand E-Collar training starts with a degree of E-Collar conditioning first (to teach them what the stim means??) And from there, E- Collar traing starts with ... "Off Leash Training.") As the way to turn the "stim off" is for the dog to get close to their owner.

But again I'm not advocating for using an E-Collar on a 15 week old puppy. The OP should just stick with basics. And in that ... they should find this interesting. :

Training a 7 week old puppy - FIRST DAY - YouTube

The upside bucket is a touch pad and one will have to follow along, to see how that comes into play down the road. :)
Completely agree, would never use it on a pup. Why I waited 2 years with many hours of training and frustration and finally getting one to proof what I saw was a safety issue.

Also agree the key is knowing exactly how to use it and making sure you either talk to a qualified trainer who uses it or watch a ton of videos. Never ever use one if you aren't sure. Like you said, could make a situation much worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'll tell my experience with shock collar on my first boxer.


I was having problems with her getting distracted at the dog park, and not listening to me. She was "boxing" other dogs, being dominate, and getting into snarling arguments with other dogs. Nothing too crazy, but the problem was that she completely ignored me when she got inside the fence.



I put on the shock collar, and after voice command didn't work, gave the tone warning, then shock.


I got her attention with the shock, and I think It was only twice that I used the shock. After that, the tone worked. I never had to shock her again.


Also, the tone wasn't needed for very long either. It was maybe two weeks later and the shock collar just rotted at the bottom of the dog toy basket. I can't find it.


Anyway, It was like magic with my dog. She got the point to LISTEN to me. And it wasn't like I needed to cause pain with the thing. The tone was the useful part of the tool.



I'll be honest, I bought a new shock collar. But it is still in the package, and I have decided not to open it until she gets older and gains more confidence. I'll probably not need it at all.



I just need to be more patient. Work with her some more. She responds treats and praise just fine.


I do appreciate feedback from the members here.
 
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