My pups both brutus and peggy were trained this way and worked great. IMO if you put them in a crate as punishment it is punishment... purtting them in a crate to train them is not....but that is my opinion..[/quote:38v8j1e5]Boxer_man_Rich\";p=\"71516 said:[quote="sully\";p=\"71511":38v8j1e5]A 12 week old pup is most likely going to have to eliminate during the night whether you use a crate or not. Theres no need to punish them when they can't physically hold it in.