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Discussion Starter #22
I'm not sure way you can't see it... because I did?
Hmm looked again and yes indeed you are correct sir! I may have changed the "attitude" but I still seem to have it! Time in "Place for me!"



:(
 

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Acywyol15, did I answer any of your questions in your last post??
Hmm... well, maybe? I'm getting the sense that maybe what I was hoping to achieve isn't realistic. I was thinking of using the slip lead as a correction for the (admittedly rare) episodes where he gets distracted by other dogs/people. From what you have been saying, what I'm already using is just as good as long as it's done right. Maybe I just need to be more patient.

I did try the Cesar thing -- tapping on the shoulder or butt to redirect attention. That actually seems to work as well as anything. Though I tapped him VERY lightly on the butt with my foot and I think the guy with the other (reactive, insane little barky thing) dog thought I was being mean to him because he hollered "he just wants to play!" across the street. But at any rate, that seemed to be enough to redirect Uhtred's attention away from the dog and back to me, for a little while.
 

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ackwyo15... honestly it sounds like you need a training combo.
1) Heavy on the general obedience, the dog shouldn't decide when the "training" is over :)
What you want in 3-4 short session a day. Use his meal to do the training.
2) You could incorporate some BAT training (Behavior Adjustment Training).
BAT uses desensitization together with a functional reward for calm behavior.
That should help with the dog reactivity. A good place to work on this is a dog park ( you and your dog on the outside :)
if you need some help let me know.

What would be great would be a short video of what the dog is doing on the lead.
 

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So... I may have made a little tiny problem sound like a big problem.
BAT says it's: "a training method for dogs who experience fear, frustration, and aggression."

Uhtred experiences none of those. He's really well behaved. He's been through two different 6-7 week training classes, and he did well (at least in the second one). He's pretty obedient. He loves other dogs. He's not afraid of anything. He just tends to think that certain people/dogs on our walks exist for the sole purpose of playing with and/or petting him, so his little tail starts wagging and he starts pulling on the leash. And then I make him sit, and he sits, and then he gets impatient and pulls, and I make him sit... honestly I probably just need to be more patient and wait for him to outgrow it. But tapping him does seem to help refocus his attention back on me.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
So... I may have made a little tiny problem sound like a big problem.
BAT says it's: "a training method for dogs who experience fear, frustration, and aggression."
Well now we may have the "three trainers" not agreeing syndrome?? Don't over think! Your doing just fine in my view!

Your using all the proper tools and gaining a better understand of how they work! Despite the title of the thread "that understanding" is the ultimate goal here! Lifting the veil of how trainers do what they do!


I took a quick look at the BAT, thing heard of it, took a quick look, not really my thing. The clips I saw involved a long line a harness and throwing crap on the ground for the dog to eat?? Not really a fan of any of that myself.

There is also NILF, Positive only etc,etc. JQP knows not what any of that "stuff" is??The only acronym, I ascribe to is KISS...Keep it simple Stupid! Works for me, I go with what works in my experience!

But reading between the lines...if your actually "setting up" situations to "proof" your dog?? Well that is an additional step, I had not anticipated anyone doing just yet??

Ideally you train your dog to walk well on a loose leash first!Until he understands well, how he is expected to behave! Then "distractions" should be able to be easily dealt with! I have never had a leash reactive dog and the dogs I work with at rescue?? No idea they don't act like fools when I have them???

None the less you get it! You have all the tools you need. At this point only a better understanding of how to better utilize what you have and know is required!

Your doing so well in fact that I will now award to you the Houndy for your hard work! :



:)
 

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I took a quick look at the BAT, thing heard of it, took a quick look, not really my thing. The clips I saw involved a long line a harness and throwing crap on the ground for the dog to eat?? Not really a fan of any of that myself.
I personally don't "knock" any type of training until I've tried it myself. I would recommend you take some time to see what the training is about before you determine.. "it's not really your thing"
I know you love links, so here's a good one on BAT and CAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFVoj-FbvGw

Ha ha!
So... I may have made a little tiny problem sound like a big problem.
That's cool! I hope you get it straightened out.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I personally don't "knock" any type of training until I've tried it myself. I would recommend you take some time to see what the training is about before you determine.. "it's not really your thing"
I know you love links, so here's a good one on BAT and CAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFVoj-FbvGw

That's cool! I hope you get it straightened out.
Ok I'll bite. If I see something that goes way counter to what I have done and what I know works, then yes I will as you say "knock it!"

But this time...if you note I did say The clip I saw involved a long line a harness and throwing crap on the ground for the dog to eat?? Not really a fan of any of that myself.

The clip you posted is quite a bit different, than the one I saw! I have no objections to anything in the clip you posted!

The link I saw was "crap advise" JQP...would not the difference! I use what works and I know crap when I see it!
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I have not forgotten this thread! I understand a lot of folks are still struggling with this issue.

And the more videos watch the more things I understand that I just simply don't and have no need to do. I simply put the leash on the dog position the collar high say "nothing" and go! No muss no fuss no screwing around period.

Well, while that's great for me it's not of much value to everyone else! So I'll try again and help those that are using real tools and still having problems!

Maybe this will help if your are still having problems:

Crazy Man Method For Leash Walking |

Someone let me know! :)
 

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So the basic idea is to turn around and walk the opposite direction whenever the dog pulls?
Worth a try...:)
I sort of do something like that already ? I turn and make him go in a little circle in the opposite direction before resuming the course.
I'm starting to think that with all of these things it just takes not merely doing some method but doing the method over and over and over again for months and months and months.
If I was going to write a dog training manual it would go like this:
" do X. Now do it again. Now do it again and again and again for a year. Your dog will gradually get a little better. "
I don't think I'd sell very many copies! But it would be the truth. My one take away from having a dog is that training takes a really really really long time and is easy to undo and hard to do.
 

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OK I'm going to jump in here I think I understand what ackwyo15 is saying about her dog. We are currently beginning to see some of this with Kai. Although we never allow him to interact with other dogs when walking he is beginning to want to. He gets jumpy and has now barked on occasion. This is mostly when my daughter (adult) is walking him. He too is good on loose lead and when he does this we just say heel and for the most part he gets back into position. Really its his wiggling kidney butt that gets him going because he is getting excited. So what we are doing is more short general training ( I think my daughter has been a bit lax and Kai is still young). Our plan is to go to a dog park (outside) where there are more distractions. I don't see that Kai has had enough distractions, his training was private training so when he sees other people/dogs he gets excited. So we may even do another class but one with other dogs. Looking for the "right" program.
 

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OK I'm going to jump in here I think I understand what ackwyo15 is saying about her dog. We are currently beginning to see some of this with Kai. Although we never allow him to interact with other dogs when walking he is beginning to want to. He gets jumpy and has now barked on occasion. This is mostly when my daughter (adult) is walking him. He too is good on loose lead and when he does this we just say heel and for the most part he gets back into position. Really its his wiggling kidney butt that gets him going because he is getting excited. So what we are doing is more short general training ( I think my daughter has been a bit lax and Kai is still young). Our plan is to go to a dog park (outside) where there are more distractions. I don't see that Kai has had enough distractions, his training was private training so when he sees other people/dogs he gets excited. So we may even do another class but one with other dogs. Looking for the "right" program.
Yep! The second dog class I took spent a lot of time on dogs sitting/walking quietly while owners walked past each other, stopped to talk, etc. It was great... but out in the real world, you almost need someone else with a dog to work on it with you. Because really the best thing would be if -- when he gets excited -- you could stop, reset, and repeat the encounter until he could do it calmly.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
So the basic idea is to turn around and walk the opposite direction
Yes!


whenever the dog pulls?
NO! "You "are" changing direction, your not looking to see "if" the dog "decides" to follow you??

The above explanation of the actual goal is not "accurately" shown by that example. But it is an "accurate" description of how the "KMODT" works!

Yep I figured it out! :) And the BAT/LAT?? Yeah, "interesting" not a fan myself and yes "I" can explain "Exactly" why!

But larger discussion of "Dog Training methods" are not my goal here! Helping folks walk their dogs is!

So moving on...



I sort of do something like that already? I turn and make him go in a little circle in the opposite direction before resuming the course.
Ok speaking for myself. I don't quite understand that myself?? So taking the liberty to speak for your dog, I'm pretty sure he would say... "neither do I?? I would recommend...you stop doing that.:)

I'm starting to think that with all of these things it just takes not merely doing some method but doing the method over and over and over again for months and months and months.
If I was going to write a dog training manual it would go like this:
" do X. Now do it again. Now do it again and again and again for a year. Your dog will gradually get a little better. "
I don't think I'd sell very many copies! But it would be the truth. My one take away from having a dog is that training takes a really really really long time and is easy to undo and hard to do.
:camera:

Yet again Right there! You have "stumbled" onto something! A few weeks ago if someone had actually asked me "well how long does it take for you to train a dog to the degree that you would consider as being reliable off leash??" I most likely would have said, I don't know?? It takes what it takes?? Most likely several months??

But while I have not done it as off yet, I can say that if you use the right method, the answer is 13 weeks! Reliably Off leash and with distractions!

I "stumbled" onto it by accident when I started this thread here and on GSDForum!
But it all started here:
http://www.boxerforums.com/training-behavior/180274-koehlerdogtraining-com-off-leash-training.html

The thread got closed by the mods because of a few tools!!!

If you have questions about what I found out...that's the place to ask. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Yep! The second dog class I took spent a lot of time on dogs sitting/walking quietly while owners walked past each other, stopped to talk, etc. It was great... but out in the real world, you almost need someone else with a dog to work on it with you. Because really the best thing would be if -- when he gets excited -- you could stop, reset, and repeat the encounter until he could do it calmly.
That couldn't hurt but it's not necessary.

My BullMastiff/APBT/LAB was not a fan of other dogs and I could take him around other dogs without issues. And when I had control of "all dogs" he was able to play with them without issue!

And on one occasion when a little dog got by me unnoticed, while Gunther and Struddell were in the yard, the little dog got right in Gunther's face and "Bark Bark Bark!!" My dogs held their ground and waited for Daddy to defuse the situation!

And Rocky only played with his pack (before the Gunther v Rocky issues) and he is safe around other dogs! Associating with known safe dogs is best but it's not necessary if you get other things right! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #36
OK I'm going to jump in here I think I understand what ackwyo15 is saying about her dog.
Please do! :)




We are currently beginning to see some of this with Kai. Although we never allow him to interact with other dogs when walking he is beginning to want to. He gets jumpy and has now barked on occasion. This is mostly when my daughter (adult) is walking him. He too is good on loose lead and when he does this we just say heel and for the most part he gets back into position. Really its his wiggling kidney butt that gets him going because he is getting excited. So what we are doing is more short general training ( I think my daughter has been a bit lax and Kai is still young). Our plan is to go to a dog park (outside) where there are more distractions. I don't see that Kai has had enough distractions, his training was private training so when he sees other people/dogs he gets excited. So we may even do another class but one with other dogs. Looking for the "right" program.
Don't do too much too fast! Dog Park (I understand the outside) is too much too fast! He does not understand what you want and is making the wrong decisions. You have to show him what you expect.

As I am not there I can only go by what I see here. And as described...if you see the butt wiggle (Boxer thing) you've waited too long. If you anticipate a "problem" then before it crops up, you want to position his collar up high and if he "starts" to get out of position a slight tug on the leash and "heel" and keep moving! It's not a debate or a discussion! Try that and let me know!

You could also do the "heel tap or the Psst thing" break his focus and keep moving.

Thus far as I see it no one here has a major my dog is reactive on leash issue??? These are mostly dogs just being brats??
 

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lol, will do Chip,, Don't worry the dog park is too far so not in a hurry to drive there. We do the turn around several times now during out walk to keep him focused on us. Had been putting him in a sit or down but we will try the keep walking routine. For the most part he is very good but I want him more reliable. I really think he needs more distractions while we are training, if he never sees anyone it doesn't help us keep him focused cause he is, lol. I need more people.. going to try and take him out more when more people are out and about. Busy life extreme heat lately has been keeping us in more so, now we had a couple of days that were nice and we can get out more and so are others. Hope we continue to get more nice days.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Had been putting him in a sit or down but we will try the keep walking routine.
The "sit and the down" with distractions would be what I would consider a more advanced technique. Get the basic walk down first. When you are at the point where a slight tug can break his focus and you can move on without issue...then your ready for the sit "with" distractions!

For the most part he is very good but I want him more reliable. I really think he needs more distractions while we are training, if he never sees anyone it doesn't help us keep him focused cause he is, lol. I need more people.. going to try and take him out more when more people are out and about. Busy life extreme heat lately has been keeping us in more so, now we had a couple of days that were nice and we can get out more and so are others. Hope we continue to get more nice days.
I was going to address this directly...but I think I can make a greater point if I go more "global!" Kinda what I do! :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #39
For those following this thread, I'll assume you are using what I describe as "real" tools. If so and you are still having "issues??" The "tool" may not be the issue! Plenty of videos on the "mechanics" of their use so what is there??

What is it you may be doing that the "Pro's" don't??? I can "guarantee" you that if a "Pro" took the leash from any dog here...they could walk these dogs without issue! If it is truly a "leash reactive dog" then they could walk it wth minimal issues.

So how do they do that?? Wel,l the obvious answer is because they know how to train dogs to walk on a loose leash! Less obvious is because while they will listen to you and politely acknowledge your concerns, they don't care!

Speaking for "myself" I can say, that I have been able to walk every dog I have worked with, without issue! I have fashioned a Slip Lead out of a jump rope and walked the dog

I don't know or care what the dogs issues are! We simply "walk" I don't "expect" or look for a dog to give me any crap! And they simply don't! Walking a dog is as much about "attitude" as it is, technique!

Watch some video's off the Dog Whisper, watch what Cesar does! Yep by and large you won't understand what you are, seeing?? And he tries to explain but still it just looks like magic??

So watch him again and this time watch closer...what does he say to the dog?? The answer is "nothing!" He takes the leash and most of the time he removes "whatever" crap the owners have on the dog, positions the collar high and at the first sign of trouble...with a slight tug on the dog sideways...which in most cases the dog has never experienced before?? The dog "magically" changes!

The foundation you need "is" in the video clip on "loose leash walking" if you get that down you'll have what you need! As I said Flat leash and collar, Slip Lead, Martingale or a Prong...in my view all the same!

Use the right tool (any of those) use it right and the rest is about you! :)

I "hope" this makes some kind of sense?? I doubt you willsee the above in any book?? Maybe the Monks of New Skeet??

Raising Your Dog with the Monks of New Skete

I don't know myself as I have not read it but "Pro's" I respect have mentioned it so I'm pretty sure it's a good source!

So at this point I'll stop with this train of thought but keep it in mind as you progress forward! :)
 

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The "sit and the down" with distractions would be what I would consider a more advanced technique. Get the basic walk down first. When you are at the point where a slight tug can break his focus and you can move on without issue...then your ready for the sit "with" distractions!



LOL well when we put him in a sit/down he will sit or stay down and not bark or wiggle, its when we are moving that he wants to lets say visit...which we don't allow and therefore put him down. I'd like him to just continue to walk without noticing the other people and/or dogs.

Now I will go watch the links. ...
 
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