Boxer Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Wow, I posted these questions on Boxerworld.com and apparently the moderator didn't like our actions and I was BANNED for bullying!!!!  By the way, I wrote to make sure we were following the correct advice (advice coming from the UNcle Matty books nonetheless, ha! So it's amazing to me that rather than providing me with the proper advice to address the situation, he/she would just ban me! Amazing...what's the point of asking advice?

Ok, let me start with this...6 weeks ago, we rescued a 5.5 month old brindle spayed female, Abby. Sweetest, most loving thing ever/ She's now 7 months and doing fantastic. This past weekend, we resuced her a companion, a year old neutered cocker male, Brady. So far, they are the best of friends.

He, however, is not trained well yet. I don't think his ex-family did much in this sense. We are trying to battle two bad habits which are starting to develop:  humping and stealing her toys.

Here is how we have addresed the situation. Brady is very wiggly and if we even look at him, nevermind touch him, he folds, down to the floor he goes, onto his back or side, wagging away. It's very cute and he thinks we are trying to play.  All fine and good, as we usually are playing with him, except when we need to discipline him. So, if he tries to hump her, he gets a firm "no," but he's too playful and doesn't react, so we also pull him off (which causes him to fold as we are touching him!). In order to make him listen, we hold him there and tell him "NO!." I can't just pull him off and let him go back to it...he needs to calm for a second and hear me saying "no!" before he can go back to play (essentially a time out).  To hold him there (while my husband can do this with one hand), i have to lay/lean on him. No force involved. Just to calm him for a second. Boxerworld says this is mistreatment...I wrote back explaining a bit more and advising that we are merely following diff't trainers advise as situations come up. Then I was banned. Ok...so tell me, is there something different we should be doing? He needs to see that we are not playing with him and needs to hear us say no. We are working on commands, etc and this will make life easier.  I do this by taking him in a separate room so he is not distracted, but I can't not let them play until he is obediance trained! I am not certain how else to address the situation or if I continue on this path. Boxerworld says I should tell him no, pull him off and redirect his attention but as they are playing, his attention goes right back to the same thing.  I need to calm him for a moment and holding him there is the way for us to do that and consistent with the other things I have read. Any other ideas...is Boxerworld right, should I not be holding him steady there to control him? (by the way, the rescue league agrees with what we have done so far!)

Secnod, toys: rescue league said merely to take the toy away, give it back to her, let him see that you are doing it and give him another toy. Of course, he goes right back to hers, but we just keep repeating these steps. Last night, she growled a bit at him for trying (usually she just lets him have it, then looks sad). We didn't discipline her for growling at her, thinking he needs to learn not to steal her toys, but we did say that if she continues to growl, we will stop her. She gave up her toys to him for the rest of the night though, didn't growl.

They are both wodnerful together and he's a good little babe...but as with any puppy, we do need to work on some discipline.  We'll get there, just want to make sure we are handling this right. I personally have never had two dogs at once before and have never had a male so these are two new issues for me!

Thanks for any input!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,679 Posts
hey... i was banned from boxer world too...  or saying the word freedom in stead of french...

as far as the holding him until he settles down.. what do you mean by lay on him?  i know some smaller dogs such as cockers can be very squirmey... so maybe having abby be the one that walks away into another room... so that brady can see that when he acts like that it means no more play time with abby
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
That may be a good idea...When I say lay, I don't mean force, I mean that while my husband is able to hold him with one hand, this requires a little more from me. I stay on the floor with them when they play...to hold him, I end up on the floor with both arms propped to hold him down.   So my arms are over him holding him (at this point he's on his side or back thinking I am playing and trying to nip, lick or kick me)...my chest, elbows etc is on the floor, not on him. I just don't have the same power my husband has to keep him steady. Part of it I think is that he doesn't yet understand basic commands and doesn't yet see me as a leader. Working on that but it will take some days...

I like the idea of her leaving the room, but she cries when they aren't in the same room (and I would have to carry her out because she will be right back ready to play)...will he think I am punishing her instead of him and not realize what went wrong? Maybe I should just try to walk him right out of the room each time he does it...maybe that would be best...I like your idea. Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,679 Posts
[quote="AbbyandBrady\";p=\"2681":1xigcjoq]That may be a good idea...When I say lay, I don't mean force, I mean that while my husband is able to hold him with one hand, this requires a little more from me. I stay on the floor with them when they play...to hold him, I end up on the floor with both arms propped to hold him down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Absolutely, I will start that tonight...fortunately, their playroom consists of two long interconnected bedrooms, door in between...so I will just shut the door between them for a moment. I will stay with Abby so she understands (as well as him) that she isn't being punished...I am sure she will love the opportunity for a nice boxer hug!  (read my oiginal post, wow, so many spelling errors when I type too quickly! ha!) We use the baby gate downstairs so I will use that when we are not in the playroom. I will let you know how it works!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Don't feel bad about that other place.....from what I have read  if you disagree with anyone there you are banned. I made the mistake of trying to check that I gave them the right email before I was permited to use my account and was banned. I have found many great people on other sites. As far as the humping goes it is just a dominance thing he is trying to set up where he belongs in the order. Just keep up with what you have been doing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the support...I was a bit dumbfounded....their site did give me a lot of great information upon just rescuing Abby..such as dealing with the giardia she had, etc. It's a shame that they are so difficult, people are seekign advice, not to be scolded!
I did a google search for another forum though and this one came up, I figured I would give it a shot! I appreciate the responses so far!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
BoxerWorld has far too many members to be able to be flexible about any of the rules, unfortunately.

The dog falling to the floor, exposing his belly, licking your face, is showing submission; he probably urinates as well, or used to.  Holding or pinning him there is telling him that you're not entirely confident about your role in the relationship - and perhaps also that you're unpredictable and a bully.  Sometimes extreme submissiveness can lead to fear-biting, so you want to watch for that, though he doesn't sound that bad.  If redirection doesn't work, then a time-out is in order - but the time out needs to mean he's removed from everything that is rewarding to him; your attention, even when you're laying on him, can still be reinforcing the behavior.  Instead, either both you and the other dog leave the room, or you crate/tether and ignore him for a short time (like, 30 seconds to 2 minutes).  A few articles that go into more detail on this (one is about puppy biting, but some of the principles are the same):
http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm
http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/prize.htm
http://www.kerryblues.info/WDJ/TETHERED.HTML

I'm not sure why you're set on interrupting their play, though.  It's generally not a good idea for the humans to try to establish rank between the dogs - it quite often backfires and causes more skirmishes than it prevents.  As well, dogs often have a fluid hierarchy between males and females - she may decide one day that all the toys belong to her, while another day she won't care at all if he takes them.  If neither is being hurt, and both are being fair about their warnings and reading the signals from the other appropriately, why not just let them enjoy themselves?

You might also work on some self-control exercises, never a bad thing in any case:
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/selfpg.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,026 Posts
Newcastle is the best!  Always so knowledgable and such good advice!  Do everything she says and you'll be fine! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,349 Posts
I agree with Newcastle on the tethering or redirect of behavior.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I agree with the submissiveness (no peeing issues surprisingly) and had the thought of the attention he got by me holding him back in the back of my mind but until I did some research to figure out how to handle it, it was the only thing I could think of to make him stop. We decided yesterday to do the time out but Abby actually took things into her own "paws" and threw a leg over him and push him away each time he started...so I figure as long as she is showing him now, we shouldn't intervene there. Before she just let him, which required intervention.

As for "interrupting" their play for the toy issue...we don't take back the toy he stole when they are romping around playing. That is mutual stealing of toys and just part of their fun. When I told the rescue league though that he likes to steal her toys when they are both playing on their own...it was at their suggestion that we started taking the stolen toy back from him. Basically, when he does this is if she is laying on her bed chewing a toy and he's over in another stop playing on his own...he walks over to her and takes her toy out of her mouth and goes back to his spot.  If she attempts to get it back, he won't let her and continues playing on his own. Should we just ignore it in this situation too? I don't mind when they are romping around, they just tease each other with the toys and have fun, but in this situation, do we give the toy back to her? If she finds a new toy to play with, he goes and takes that one too and then has 3. We could go through the whole box of toys and end up leaving her with nothing. Do we leave this for them to work out? She doesn't do much here so I feel the need to bring a toy back to her! (I make sure that he still has something).

Last night he was much more compliant with "sit" which is great...helps a lot in training rather than restraining as noted in that article!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,694 Posts
Dont worry about the "other" site lol I was banned a long time ago for asking people to be friends with Roxy on that dogster site hahaha lmao :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
About boxerworld, I tried to register before I found this site and got banned before I'd even logged in! I didn't understand! I'd never even got the chance to post anything and they banned me! Oh well!

Heather
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
I had the same experience as Heather with Boxerworld.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
Thank goodness this site is so wonderful.  It seems to be quite personal since I recognize most of you.  I also agree with Newcastle... have you tried any of the suggestions yet and if so, how are they going?
~Anne
Cactus' mommy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,349 Posts
My thoughts on the toy issue is that he is just establishing his rank between the two dogs.  If he is doing it in a benevolent way, as it sounds like he is, he is just letting her know he is the big brother.  At his age he has a lot more experience than her about life and is simply trying to teach her some basic dog ettiquet. He should be the leader of the "dog" part of the pack due to age and experience at this time. My older dog is teaching my 6 month old puppy this lesson at this time.  Sometimes he slightly lifts a lip to let her know, it's mine right now, sometimes he gives a little stronger warning , but always kindly and with meaning. There are things in dogdom we cannot teach and the older brother is assuming his appropriate role. I would not interrupt, only observe.

To be barred from the other site for asking questions and wanting to learn, is there crime, not yours.  

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."   Herbert Spencer

Keep asking questions and learning.  The old school tactics were once mine also, I learned from asking questions and thinking things thru.  Also, trying to learn as much "dogspeak" as I can.

Nano
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Good morning...Yes, I did actually try timeouts...they play in two interconnected rooms and I just shut the door between them, staying with the one who is not in trouble!  Brady is just such a happy puppy it's hard to tell whether he understood why the door was closed between them but he will catch on! Her, on the other hand, ha! I gave her one quick time out for something and she was staring at me with her ears high and her eyes so sad through the door (I leave it cracked so I can see what they do on the other side!) and when she came out, she trambled right over him, ignoring him completely, gave me a "boxer" hug and nuzzled my forehead....so funny! So the next time she tried the same thing that she had gotten the time out for, I just said, "ehh!" and she looked at me, stopped and walked over to me. So...now, if he can just pick up on it..he will with time.
They cuddled so cute last night, it was so sweet!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
My dog has some mild fear issues when it comes to new people, and as a preventative to her becoming fear aggressive, I took some classes at a wonderful place. The hardest thing for me to learn was that what we see and do to "comfort" our dog, is actually reassuring them. If they're scared and you reach down and pet them, you're actually reinforcing that negative response.

I do agree wholly with Newcastle. And I think the timeouts are the best thing. On a side note with him being all squirmy and falling down....maybe spend some time with him being close and attentive, in a very quiet, non threatening manner, and whenever you can approach him with out him doing the submissive thing...reward him with a handful of treats.

And Lots and lots of exercise that's both physically and mentally involved will help too with the learning process. Long walks a good too. If they've expended that bouncy energy, they're easier to teach and work with. Keep training sessions short too. Break up little 5-10 min sessions with play time and/or combine it together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,679 Posts
Jessie will sometimes lower her head when someone goes to pet her, but once she smells them and i guess decides if they are ok... she is all wiggles and licks...
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top