[Guest]

Ok..so I'm trying to decided what is best for Jetta...I kinda wanted to possibly breed her IF she passed all of her health tests etc...at 2 year old....BUT...I wasn't sure if I should put her at risk for health issues with no guarentee I will breed her...SO...I read some articles...and am now even more confused

;
JayJay posted this article awhile back
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTerm ... InDogs.pdf

and while reading...some things came to my mind...

the article states:

Adverse Vaccine Reactions
A retrospective cohort study of adverse vaccine reactions in dogs was conducted, which included allergic
reactions, hives, anaphylaxis, cardiac arrest, cardiovascular shock, and sudden death. Adverse reactions
were 30% more likely in spayed females than intact females, and 27% more likely in neutered males than
intact males34.
The investigators discuss possible cause-and-effect mechanisms for this finding, including the roles that sex


hormones play in body

 

[JeanenesBoogerBabies]

Wow...that is a LONG list of questions...and we are in the midst of deciding how soon to spay Pua...wow...I'll be watching for answers!

 

[AnnArtisan]

A long list of questions, indeed.  I only skimmed it, but closely enough to get the feeling that one should err on the side of nature with the breeds mentioned.  I.e., leave 'em as God made 'em.  

Atticus is now eight months old and hasn't been neutered yet.  His testicles never descended, and I've read that that it's even more important to neuter in such cases as undescended testicles are prone to becoming tumorous.  Sigh.  Now I have a whole new set of possible conditions to consider.  

Lordy, raising children was never this hard!

 

[Guest]

can anyone tell that I'm a worry wart?  I just want what's best for Jetta...looking at the article...mammary tumors while common are treatable...osteosarcoma is not treatable really...hemangiosarcoma is deadly...hip dysplasia sucks...and the thryroid issue is already common in boxers...it just seems like it might be better to leave her intact and be responsible for keeping her away from males during her heat cycles?

jeez...I've been pondering this all night...it's 5 am and i still can't stop thinking it over...sigh

 

[samsonsmom]

Good questions Jamie...Obviously we all want to the absolute best for our babies, but there is still an element of a crap shoot involved...I can't address all your concerns, but I am attaching a very good article on Hip Dysplasia which may answer a few questions regarding that...If you are serious about breeding her, Jetta is old enuf to be evaluated by a breeder, specifically one that shows succcessfully..They can tell you her faults and positives..that is important to know before you even consider breeding..Next, have her hips x-rayed..That can be done after 4 mos actually and Hip Dysplasia should show up if it's there...A lot of times pups are born with it, but never show any signs until they are in their senior years, like Samson, but his is just arthritis....
At the end of the day, any breeding regardless if you have 2 health tested animals can have pitfalls, it's sadly a part of life and there is no guarantee that the pups will not have any illness either...So we do the best we can to insure that doesn't happen....Hope this is a bit of help


http://www.goldendoodles.com/hd_mini_tutorial.htm

 

[HannaBanana]

Hanna was done at 6 months, for reason being I had a spay /neuter contract and no way am I dealing with any heats in a house with light colored furniture and carpet.   :-&

I am doing agility with her, and dont regret my decision esp now that I have a male and there is no room for any accidents if you know what I mean   :wink:

Seond, with Kash I am waiting until 18 months due to the fact that I want him to have the extra testoterone for his growth esp when I start agility with him.  

I think IMO there is no clear research showing any long term health benefits with spaying early 6-9 months or later.

(, then spay, but given the fact you have an unneutered dog in the house, I could not chance it.  (I do not think Bo is neutered yet).   A dog in heat will drive the make nuts, and it will be hard to keep them separate esp if you do not know what you are doing.   I have friend in FLA who had two boxers,  show dogs, it happened to them (they were not too educated on heats etc) and now their female show prospect is pregnant at 1.5 years old and ending all show abilities - no one wants a teenage pregnancy.

Second, just because Jetta will pass her heath test, still means that she needs to be evaluated by a professional - I would get involved in your local boxer club to find someone who knows a lot  about the standard and when she is done growing can evaluate her.  Its a big responsibility, and you have to know when breeding your female ,there is possibility your female's life could be a risk  :wink:

So I am sure Jennifer (Newcastle) will have more insight on the technicalities of spaying age.

 

[Guest]

Bo is getting fixed Feb. 6th...so that will be a nonissue- he will be a few days short of his 1st birthday
at this point, I am not really planning on breeding Jetta...I just want what is most healthy for her in the long run...would I like to breed her?  yes...do i think I will have the time, money and means to do so?  Most likely no...I'll be either in graduate school, just starting my career, or about to start a family of my own when she is ready to be bred..so looking ahead, i really can't see myself able to breed her ( it being a very big time commitment and everything).  My dream is to buy a nice show quality female when I'm in my 30's or 40's...when the kids (future) are old enough to help out...and when I will be stable in my career and able to take time off to help the dog...will that happen?  Who knows...my current issue now is:
Does spaying put my puppy at higher risk for these nasty cancers, vaccine reactions, thryroid issues, and urinary issues and do these risks outweigh the benefits ie- mammary cancer prevention, her girly figure, and convience for me?  I personally do not care about the bleeding issue (grew up with an unaltered dog....she was a pain a few days a year, but it didn't bother us).  Those diapers are actually kinda cute, lol...I am ready to make sure she is not exposed to male dogs in the nieighborhood, to keep her isolated or on leash while in heat, etc...not a problem....they are indoor dogs anyways, lol.  reading up on that article, I am comfortable in my decision to neuter Bo because 1. he is going to be about 1 year old and from what I read in the article, it only mentioned issues with early neutering...plus he doesn't have the vaccine reactions that little Jetta does...

I know it may seem like I am putting WAY too much thought into this...it's just so scary, lol...Part of me feels that I should leave her the way God made her...He knows what he's doing...and part of me feels that IF I can help her to have a healthier life (which right now...I really don't know based on that article) I should do so...

talk about overanalysing, lol

 

[HannaBanana]

Does spaying put my puppy at higher risk for these nasty cancers, vaccine reactions, thryroid issues, and urinary issues and do these risks outweigh the benefits ie- mammary cancer prevention, her girly figure, and convience for me?  

On your issues (spay wise) I have not yet seen any long term health reports confirming any of this with regard to age of spay / neuter.    There are risks every day.   The genetics of where you got your dog, what you are feeding it, as well as heath care that can determine the risks you are naming.   Spay IMO when done by an experience vet, does not affect long term health (again IMO).  

Feed a carb / sugar filled diet, getting a dog with an unknow heath histroy I would be more concerned with the above lying issues then the spay, but again thats my opinon.    I am sure others will have input to this, and then you can look at the pros and cons

Nope - your are not be crazy, gotta think of anything when it come to the health of your pet.

 

[choas2k]

Aqua I understand the concern and had you posted the article 2 weeks ago I would be with you girl!!  I did do the research as well as talk to my Vet and we both came to the conclusion that we are darned if you do and darned if you don't.  However for me in the long run I had to think about her quality of life at that present time as well as my families.  I think that my decision would have been a thousand times harder had I had read your post before I took her.  I even walked in the office that morning to drop her off crying and the Vet reassured me I was doing the right thing.  

 

[Guest]

I am anal with Jetta and Bo...I only give them good, high quality food and treats...no sugar or table scraps...exersice (run in the field) daily....weekly to twice a weeks spa days...

Mike would prefer not to fix her...Bo either...but I am adament about Bo (more likely to get out and I can't control neighborhood female dogs) He doesn't like how we surgically change what God has made...he doesn't like cropping, docking, or dew claw removal at all..he likes to leave the animals all natural...so that is yet another factor in the decision, lol...so basically for me my final decision will be made on health benefits vs. health risks (I am going into healthcare so health is a big one for me)

 

[HannaBanana]

Look up research by  Dr. Mark Bloomberg, DVM, DACVS and Chief of Staff at the University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine.

He has done research to show that there are no difference in immune function, growth rates and final size, and urinary tract fuction and disease rates in juvenile versus adult spay/neutrer cases.

 

[Newcastle]

Heather, here are two articles which discuss numerous studies that show increased risks of various long-term health concerns in spayed/neutered dogs (one is the one mentioned earlier in this thread):

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTerm ... InDogs.pdf
http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/pdf/10 ... 31.11.1665

The second one is from the 12/1/07 Journal of the AVMA, written by respected reproductive vet Dr. Margaret Root-Kustritz, titled "Determining the optimal age for gonadectomy of dogs and cats".  It has some nice tables with relative risk of the various health concerns, which can help vets and owners make the appopriate decision for the individual dogs.  

Some important points from the review are these:

"Pets should be considered individually, with the understanding that for these pets, population control is a less important concern than is health of each animal. Dogs and cats should be maintained as household pets. Responsible owners should ensure that their pets are provided appropriate and regularly scheduled veterinary care."

"For female cats and male and female dogs, veterinarians and owners must consider the benefits and detriments of gonadectomy for each animal."

"Factors to be considered include incidence of various conditions associated with gonadectomy; degree of morbidity, with substantial morbidity defined as a condition prevalent in > 1% of the population, associated with > 50% of the malignancy or mortality rates, or not easily controlled by noninvasive treatments or good husbandry; breed; and intended working or breeding life of each animal.

The first paper mentioned has a nice breakdown of the issue, as well:

-----
On the positive side, neutering male dogs

 

[choas2k]

Jennifer Thanks for the great information, we are about to acquire Maggies brother and the information is very helpful!  You are a world of knowledge and thanks for sharing especially since I find myself sometimes over analizing.  Also Hanna you have been a great resource for me as well, I think if I tell my husband one more time I read this/that in the form...he is going to do a song and dance to it...lol.  Aqua thank you for posting the questions.  It has been a tremendous help with the reading/research     Not to mention you have answered questions I haven't had a chance to ask yet.  I think that Jetta and Bo are so lucky to have an owner as you and if everyone took care of their pets as we do in the forum so many of these issues would no longer be issues (breeding and such).  It has definitely been an eye opener for me.  I am very comfortable here knowing that we can all help with questions/problems/or just chat!!  So really THank You!!!

 

[GabysDaddy]

OMG that is alot of information both negative and positive, and now I'm confused as to if I should have Gaby spayed or not....I fully understand your concerns Jamie as I am also a worry wart when it comes to my dog. I would very interested to know where you stand after reading and pondering over this info.

 

[Guest]

After pondering, I am leaning to wait until Jetta is 18-24 months old prior to spaying, but will likely get her spayed at some point in that time frame...try to prevent the mammory issue while not increasing the other issues as much...

 

[Britneysdad]

So it sounds like 17.5 months is the good time if you wish to spay. It is a hard decision, but I feel it is a good idea.

 

[BurningRiver]

I think that it's also important to note that many of these things are related as well. Studies have shown that there is a link between hypothyroidism and pancreatitis. . . And, if we consider what we're essentially doing in removing an animal's reproductive organs, it really shouldn't be a big surprise that we'd affect other parts of the endocrine system as well. The knee bone is connected to the. . .

It's important to note that I'm not against spaying and neutering and that my pet contracts are constructed in a manner that requires S/N, however, I am requiring it at a much later age and at a time during which the endocrine system is much closer to being mature. Of course, this is just what falls within my personal comfort level and each individual needs to do what falls within theirs, and I do feel that people deserve to be presented with as much unbiased information as is possible so that they can reach a decision that they're most comfortable with.

Just my three cents, as usual.  :wink: