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Discussion Starter #1
Well I lost my first attempt at this! :(

To long and chatty anyway ...so probably not a bad thing??

So this attempt I'll do as I often advise ...and keep it simple!

First and foremost, your dog need to be able to go on a "Structured Walk" without issues.

Looks like this:


I've covered that here, you need to use "real tools" of your choice but they are discussed here:

http://www.boxerforums.com/training-behavior/179513-slip-lead-leash.html

You don't need additional problems created by other peoples uncontrolled dogs or train your dog to "ignore" you by running around around with other dogs on a "routine basis."

Long way of saying "No Dog Parks.":
http://www.boxerforums.com/1728673-post37.html

In essence step one is "don't" make other Dogs a source of excitement in the first place! Everything else is easier.

If you do that then this will be easier:

Leerburg | Who Pets Your Puppy or Dog

These are things I have always done with my "personal" dogs and I have never had a " seriously leash reactive dog issue!"

Closest I've come to it, was with my GSD and he would start to wobble and bounce and get agitated when Dogs behind a fence were barking at him???

A "pro" on the GSD board suggested I "simply popped him on the head with the loose end of the leash!" Just a "pop" your not "whacking the crap out of the dog!"

So the next time with a neighbor's barking dogs in Rocky's face, that's what I did! And boom he stopped just like that! That was 6 years ago, never had an "issue" since.

And my dogs "never" meet "I thought my Dog was friendly folks??" My American Band Dawg was not, so I just stuck with that! Worked better than I knew at the time! I step aside or cross the street I have to pass on the side walk I'm between the other dog and mine.

I don't expect a problem but I don't take chances, with my dogs.

So it's as much about what "not to do" as it is "what to do!"

So with that much said ...I'll let the "experts" take it from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3c5X8wCzc0&ab_channel=TyTheDogGuy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHZYp2lCNjw&list=PLB6f2gzhz_AnjCf7QroLiwvJmEV6Up17F&index=1&ab_channel=LeerburgEnterprises,Inc


If you have already messed up as such, then it may take more effort to do undo what has been done??

That would look like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9e_1uCQUYvE&ab_channel=DavidHogan

But my "dog is reactive on leash" would be yet another thread! So let's keep from going there!

As always ask questions! :)
 

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Thanks for this post Chip.

Great information in those videos!

Once we stopped going to dog parks we could start getting a handle on our reactive issues with the correct training.

I fully believe that we would still be having issues if we still subjected our dog to those environments.

I might have to use the video from Ty. Our friends are dog park believers and I get the feeling they think we are depriving our dog because I am so against them. The funny thing is that they are running into some issues and they haven't made the correlation yet that it is probably caused by the dog park.

Thanks again! :clap2:
 

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So you "popped" your dog with your magic wand ONE TIME and he never acted like that again. Ok Chip...sure.

And most people don't care to teach this to their dogs...but for those that do, thanks for the info.
 

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So you "popped" your dog with your magic wand ONE TIME and he never acted like that again. Ok Chip...sure.

And most people don't care to teach this to their dogs...but for those that do, thanks for the info.
Once again ignore my own advice ... yes. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for this post Chip.

Great information in those videos!

Once we stopped going to dog parks we could start getting a handle on our reactive issues with the correct training.

I fully believe that we would still be having issues if we still subjected our dog to those environments.

I might have to use the video from Ty. Our friends are dog park believers and I get the feeling they think we are depriving our dog because I am so against them. The funny thing is that they are running into some issues and they haven't made the correlation yet that it is probably caused by the dog park.

Thanks again! :clap2:
I stumbled onto the "No Dog ParK" thing by accident in 2000 with Gunther BullMastiff/APBT/Lab aka American Band Dawg.

My first dog as an adult and of course my plan was "Dog Park City" here we come!! Yeah ... "NO!"

I did a lot of research on ABD but nowhere did I see it spelled out that APBT and derivatives thereof are not by nature to fond of other dogs??

It was pretty clear to me that "I" had a problem?? And I did not want to make my problem someone else's problem!

I thought Gunther was an Aggressive Dominant Male so I had him evaluated, the "Pro" said "No" he's just a Dominant Male dog.

No problem then ... No Dog Parks, No I thought my Dog was friendly people! It would be Seven years late when I understood what a "true" Dominant Aggressive Male dog was! (Source of Who Pets as solution for "us.")
I did not need a "Pro" eval for that one! I had a living room view!

No Dog Parks has hidden benefits, your dogs does not learn that what you say doesn't matter, by running around out of control with a bunch of dogs!
A dog won't view unknown dogs as a temptation! Hence my lack of "experience" with any serious "leash reactivity" problems! And because of that a dog is not "prone" to darting across a street to greet a Dog if he sees it and you do not??

If you don't train your dog that "every" dog is to be met! They view seeing another dog as no big deal!

And my guys were fine around other dogs! And my training of Gunther saved the life of my neighbor's little untrained piece of crap dog!

While I was working on my car once, my dogs were outside "On The Lawn" and I hear yapping??? I look up and my eyes get wide as saucers!! I see the little miscreant four feet from Gunther, who stood his ground and stared down! The little dog was barking in his face!!! Struddell was on Gunther's flank looking to him to see what to do???

So first, there is no doubt that had the little POC actually struck Gunther?? That dog would have been tore apart before I could move!!

Gunther looked to me to see how to handle this situation??? I said good boy and Stay and swiftly got the dog out of his!

And my "former" Dominant Aggressive Male OS WL GSD??? Who also did not much care for people?? We went to a pet vaccine day event! A crap load of crazy off the hook dogs! Howling and barking and screaming and peeing on the staff.

Rocky's response (GSD) nothing!! Absolutely rock solid, zero issues one of the very few well behaved dogs there! :)

Many of the "Pro's" don't address this (ignore other dogs) till after people have problems! They work on leash reactivity issues "after" the fact but make little mention of "preventing" it before hand?? You hear them say these things if you look, but by and large it's not very apparent advise.

That would be mostly because "Pro's" that work with serious dogs ... already do these things! They don't do Dog Parks, they don't let strangers pet their Dog's and they certainly don't do "I thought my Dog was friendly People??"

Nope they "fix" the problems of those that do! :)

Yeah your friends ... good luck with that. Family and friends and there dogs thing. I don't get involved. Cesar pretty much works hard at countering my advice! Every episode he works with the people on them and there dogs issues and at the end of the show, to the "Dog Park" they go!

Well what about all the other dogs at the "Dog Park???" He has not worked with?? If one of the Cesar dogs gets attacked and again becomes reactive?? Is Cesar going back for a follow up visit??

It makes me cringe but hey if you're a trainer or a behaviourist?? Dog Parks are good for business! :)
 

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Thanks for all the advise and videos you post Chip. I have found some useful, as I am always open to others ideas and training methods. To those who are not interested, just skip those posts, there are some I skip from time to time but for others there may be some useful info. I try to keep an open mind, as in the end we all love our furry friends and want whats best for them.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for all the advise and videos you post Chip. I have found some useful, as I am always open to others ideas and training methods. To those who are not interested, just skip those posts, there are some I skip from time to time but for others there may be some useful info. I try to keep an open mind, as in the end we all love our furry friends and want what's best for them.
Thanks by and large that's what I try and do!

Lou Castle said it best ... this guy:
Home

He's on my friends list on the GSD Forum and he does not bare fools well!

But he said "if people don't like my post ...they don't have to read them!" Good advise. :)


I'll also ad that some people that seem to be rather critical of others seem to have very little in the way of actual advise for anyone??

Just saying. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Back on point this does coincide with the Michael Ellis post but it not only services as a an observation of the kind of dogs that are "frequently" found in "Dog Parks" for those working on "The Place Command" here is your high level distraction!

Train, Train,Train first! Then "Place" outside a "Dog Park!" If you want a "bomb proof" Place Command that's how you get it! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeZXUAvr_ws&ab_channel=PeterCaineDogTraining
 

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Discussion Starter #9
By and large my goal is to not have "this" problem in the first place. Known safe dogs only no, Dog Parks, no I thought my dog was friendly, people and use "structured" walks.

That worked just find with my Dog Aggressive, ABD that rolled out the box with an anti dog attitude?? He could get anywhere and did not act like a fool around other dogs! My GSD is better still and he has never played with a single dog outside his pack in his life!

But if you get the first part wrong or you get a rescue with issues ..then it's a bit diffident.

Strudded walk and the use of the proper tools (see my SLL thread is key!) by and large most pro's don't use a SLL don't sweat the point your not going to fix "this" problem with a harness!

Over use or incorrect use of a "Prong" can also be a problem?? "Corrections" is a "grey area" however and subject to interpenetration! You can eliminate that variable with a Pet Conveniencer :

Pet Convincer.com

Enough Pro's recommend it that I feel it's safe and effective .

Here is a clip from Tylor Muto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjxiMvajxok

Hey ... more info sooner than I thought! Check this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw5EsUKhEkU

I think I just "stumbled across someone else! :)

I'll be adding more info as I run across it. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hmm, trying to consolidate my efforts. And I use this thread all the time. So just a quick note. The Link below contains Sit on The Dog and The Place Command, very important in training "calming behaviour into a dog."

But also useful in dealing with dog reactivity and fear issues. Once properly trained you will want to find dogs at a distance (No contact) not trying to make doggy friends here just trying to get the dog to deal. But to "proof" him you would do these "OUTSIDE" of a "DOG PARK!"

Once the dog is "Properly Trained" in "Place" you can correct him fairly for "Breaking Place" The "reason" why does not matter (other dogs) what he will understand is I broke "Place" and it's best if I "chose" not to.

Most likely the dog should be able to maintain "Place" for at least two hours before trying the Dog Park thing and "your" job is to keep other dogs out of his space. :)

Ideally the goal is you will have a "calmer" dog to deal with, if the dog is more willing to "listen" then any corrections would consist of a "Verbal Marker" ie "NO" or a "slight tug sideways. :)



http://www.boxerforums.com/training/183298-fearful-anxious-flat-crazy-place-command.html
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hmm I thought this one was here but I guest I forgot?? For those struggling with a leash corrections which would be ... a slight tug sideways before, the dog reacts "using a propery tool."

Pet Convincer.com

If you have trouble with "corrections" you can use a "Pet convincer" or a Bicycle air pump .. it's half the price. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfiDe0GNnLQ
 

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Yesterday at the pet store I went out with my devils and there was a well behaved Husky....unfortunately mine are not (lots of work in front of me)...both were pulling with all their might for the Husky and hell if I had a hard time just stayin where we were let along put distance between us (like a boat anchor I tell ya-8 legs is somethin else

I haven't felt ashamed of my dogs in a long while...need to go to the gym!
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Yesterday at the pet store I went out with my devils and there was a well behaved Husky....unfortunately mine are not (lots of work in front of me)...both were pulling with all their might for the Husky and hell if I had a hard time just stayin where we were let along put distance between us (like a boat anchor I tell ya-8 legs is something else

I haven't felt ashamed of my dogs in a long while...need to go to the gym!
Aww yess work by force??? Not really my approach. :)

So ... first I am not a "Pro!" I feel that is "important" to say because some members on the GSD board "assumed" I was and when I'd say "if I can do it anyone could." It kinda ticked them off???

How many times have I said that ... well folks can do a search.

chip18 I am not a pro german shepherd board site:German Shepherds : German Shepherd Dog Forums

It gets old after awhile. :)

I also tend to say I don't care if a dog has an undisclosed "bite" history ... because under my care, he won't be given an "opportunity" to make "Poor Choices. I show my dogs first how I expect them to behave.

I don't "battle with my dogs" or dogs under my care ... "I" show them what I want through training. It makes life simple. :)

"I'm not" saying you have that "issue (H/A)" but it explains why I say what I say. I screwed up on here and did a disservice to "everyone" by ticking "Bte" off, I've tried to apologize ... but you know.... Who would have thought .. not saying your a "Pro" could be an "issue with "some" people .. well Ok me???"

Had I known they were in fact a "Pro???" I'd have treated them with more "Respect!" I only realized what I'd done when I did what I do with my dogs ... stop and think?? And in looking back the questions they'd ask which I found "annoying" at the time, because I'd have stop what I was doing and explain. Which did explain save for one!

"Do "I" believe fighting females "issues" could not be resolved??? That one was a high E-Collar Correction for me! Uh oh ... what have I done! :cry:

So while I was still focused on dog problems ... yeah a lot of members were working on me! Yes .... it was a long slow process ... but I did not get banned! :dance:

So I guess "mods" figured well if we can get this "Bad" dog in the "Dog Park" under control ... maybe there is some value here???

Well ... thank you, it took a very long time ... but I try to no longer operate in this mode.:



So yeah ... job well done everyone. :cheers:

Just wanted say that ... so back on pointe ... is part two. :)
 

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Your answer is like those YT links,full of confusing stuff,no real answers or help :p

:lol

The 2 devils are not afraid at all...so its not fear aggression...its pure aggression...ready to blow all the time.

I will start walking them with loaded backpacks and see what comes out of that but its really hot this summer,I dont want to hurt them
 

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Martin, I love that you've taken on not one but two older dogs! What a challenge that must be not knowing much if anything about them before you took them under your care. I don't know if I could do that myself so I am glad there are people like you that rescue our loveable, unpredictable crazy Boxers. I am sure that, given time, you'll have them behaving properly and being wonderful, loveable, happy dogs! Big hugs and much admiration!
 

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Yep, I guess you just have to get to know them, and frankly its not even a week. I'm sure given some time you will figure them out and will determine the best approach. You may end up having to do a little one on one for a bit. Its always more difficult in my opinion with a rescue as you never really know their past. I am sure you "got this".
 

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Your answer is like those YT links,full of confusing stuff,no real answers or help :p

:lol

The 2 devils are not afraid at all...so its not fear aggression...its pure aggression...ready to blow all the time.

I will start walking them with loaded backpacks and see what comes out of that but its really hot this summer,I dont want to hurt them

The easy way to work on it would be...
1) work on them individually.
2)take the easier one and hit the story again. Before you go in, walk around the area a little bit. Let him/her smell around, look.. just kind of take it all in. During this time work on some general OB stuff. Nothing crazy just get him/her focused back on you a little.
3) Once he/she as calmed a bit it's time to get a bit more focused. Approach going into the store more like a structured walk (no peeing, no stop and sniff, etc.) and less like a shopping event.
4) Focus on her/him. At the first sight of being "to" interested use a quick leash correction to get the focus back.
For me.. I would be looking for the first sign on interest in something I don't like.
The moment he/she presses forward, bows up, stiffens... the very first sign, snap her back to focusing on you.

Here is the key... if you don't catch it quick enough (the signs), chances are you're not going to be able to get him/her to focus back on you. If you reach that point leave the store. Your not going to "teach" anything if the dog is jacked up.
If that doesn't make since just PM me and I'll try and state it in a different way.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The easy way to work on it would be...
1) work on them individually.
2)take the easier one and hit the story again. Before you go in, walk around the area a little bit. Let him/her smell around, look.. just kind of take it all in. During this time work on some general OB stuff. Nothing crazy just get him/her focused back on you a little.
3) Once he/she as calmed a bit it's time to get a bit more focused. Approach going into the store more like a structured walk (no peeing, no stop and sniff, etc.) and less like a shopping event.
4) Focus on her/him. At the first sight of being "to" interested use a quick leash correction to get the focus back.
For me.. I would be looking for the first sign on interest in something I don't like.
The moment he/she presses forward, bows up, stiffens... the very first sign, snap her back to focusing on you.

Here is the key... if you don't catch it quick enough (the signs), chances are you're not going to be able to get him/her to focus back on you. If you reach that point leave the store. Your not going to "teach" anything if the dog is jacked up.
If that doesn't make since just PM me and I'll try and state it in a different way.
LOL ... your back ... and you stole my first point! :)
 

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Your answer is like those YT links,full of confusing stuff,no real answers or help :p

:lol
LOL indeed! That's fair so now this ... poses a challenge! So how about a bare minimum of links maybe two?? I promise. :chef:

So ... be different ... Ok if you were my neighbor and you told me what happened and actually asked me for my advice I would say ...

You know "Bob" here's the thing you took not one but two dogs you don't really know and put them in a high pressure environment. So really you can't be surprised you had some issues. But hey ...you know people do that kinda stuff all the time and it "usually" works out fine ... I guess?

But yeah you know, that's not what I would have done. You don't really know these dogs and they don't really know you. Really you need to give them some time to "decompress" and "settle." You guys will have many happy years together. I think maybe giving them a couple of weeks to settle in would be a good idea?? If you want to have an idea of what that is ... I found this link on line a few years ago, struck me as a pretty good idea??

https://stickydogblog.com/2012/10/11/i-just-got-a-rescued-dog-what-do-i-do/

You might want to give that a shot?? And I'd also heard something about "Dog Parks" and doing that street meet and greet thing not being the best of ideas?? Don't remember where I saw that though?? :)

But hey that 'every dog is my friend thing" might work for you (the meeting dogs stuff) But I just flat don't let my dogs encounter other dog. I don't need the hassle of dealing with "fixing" my dogs "if" they have a bad encounter.


(Then after a few Beers ... ) you know funny thing about dogs ... when I had Gunther my (American Band Dawg) and of course my Struddell I never had any issues with strays on walks.

Had one encounter once with my puppy Boxer/Pit a 90 lb APBT burst through the front door aiming for my freakin puppy!!! Yeah that ain't gonna happen! (nother story) but when I got "Rocky" wow must be a GSD thing?? Today I think 9 "attempts" on him so far?? They still would have to get past me and so far "none" have! But it get's annoying ... people ought to control there freaking dogs! But yeah that's kinda why I don't do the "Dog Park" thing myself but that's me. Funny thing though ... you know I don't do the Dog Park thing. But the odd thing is ... what twelve, thirteen, encounters with strays (to date) and absolutely everyone of them has been close to home?? What's up with that?? Still back in the day my Band Dawg, had other dog issues and in San Jose there were plenty of them around (band Dawgs) So I did folks a favor and stated away from them, I figured if my dog had "issues" there were others out there like him and those folks might not care to much about what there does?? Worked out fine so I still don't do Dog Parks myself.

Don't know ... there was an article I saw about "Three dogs who should not be at a dog park" but I don't recall where I saw it?? But you might want to look that up??

Then again maybe it's just a west coast thing?? Out here a lot of folks are kinda like me, "I don't know you I don't know your dog you keep your distance I'll keep mine." I've met very few well behaved dogs and the few of us who have them (Rocky is pretty much always off leash) smile and wave at each other from across the street.

I have heard of "Pack Walks" however must be a "Big City" thing?? I'd like to do that someday I think, don't know Reno maybe ... lots of people there.




The 2 devils are not afraid at all... so its not fear aggression...its pure aggression...ready to blow all the time.

I will start walking them with loaded backpacks and see what comes out of that but its really hot this summer, I don't want to hurt them
Wow Bob that sounds bad! But I've heard from the "Pro's" that owners often misdiagnosed "Fear for Aggression" all the time?? Most likely there right. Don't know, when I got my first WL GSD, I was pretty sure he had an aggression issue?? First time we had company ... he locked on them with a "cold hard stare" and a low growl??? I thought he'd be like well you know my Boxer and Band Dawg they luv'd people. But this guy ... yeah not so much. He happened to in bed at the time and I thought you know yeah! That's a great idea you stay there (I know that there is this thing called "Place??) and Daddy will just keep company out of your face!

Worked out fine but yeah Aggression/Fear I don't know I settle on "unpredictable" myself and went about making sure my dogs were calm with dogs and people. Kinda stand there and doing dog, that's your job. To stand by my side calmly and do nothing. (OK yeah my Struddell was a fall on calm with people but her "threat" was being annoying. Boxer thing :) )

Place was not a "Boxer" requirement (but it should have been) Struddell never had any issues aside from general Boxer nuttiness. But my "GSD," yeah that's when I got on board the "do nothing" train. But "Struddell" hmm the butt did tend to wiggle, but ... "Boxer." So I'll count that as a "Breed Characteristic" but "Rocky" with him, stand there and do nothing was good by me. :)

But you know, I gotta tell you, walking two at once it can be done but ... it takes some one on one time with each dog, and preferably in a quiet area without distractions. To do that properly it's pretty much the basis for everything .. a dog does not need you to exercise but it does need you to go on a proper structured walk.

So job number one is, each dog needs to be able to walk well on a loose leash first, before you can start working on other "issues." You can't build the roof before you build the floor kinda thing.

Yeah sounds silly, I suppose but something about "showing" them what you want and how you "expect" them to behave??" Kinda makes sense. A dog has to know what good behaviour is before, you can "fairly" correct them for not doing what they've never been shown?? That would be, how to walk properly on a loose leash. That's what I do anyway, show them what I want.

I remember this one herder dog I fostered. She had never been on a leash in her 4 year life. I trained her using a SLL, my tool of choice but don't sweat that they are apparently a bit tricky to learn to use properly?? I think most Pro's use a Prong Collar?? Using a "Prong Collar" properly is an easily transferable skill from what I understand, and SLL not so much. There is also the flat leash and regular option. I think that SLL guy had some stuff on that I heard he claimed the SLL made trainer a dog easier and faster for him anyway?? In any case lots of structured walks, were done and I showed her how I expected her to behave on walks.

Never really cared for herder dogs myself but the neighbor was done with her and he said "off to the pound for you!" Sigh .. so I took her ... and we worked together on walks and stuff. Near the end .. actually we wanted to keep her but the phone rang after three months and a Mom and 13 year old came over of course he wanted to take her for a walk!

I was kinda sorta hoping ... that would be a fail?? But no ... I'd done my job well and she did her job well. The little boy walked up and down the block, with Molly walking calmly by his side ... yeah she found a new home. :cheers:

I guess that was not really a surprise as I'd trained that before a little old lady with a cane could walk Struddel on leash with zero issues. You pretty much had to look at her to know she was there.

And I'd read somewhere that a "proper leash correction" is a slight tug sideways," something about a dog being strongest in the chest and shoulders you know the Husky thing.

And you might wanna look up something about "Rules, Structure and Limitations and No Free Roaming in the house??" I don't know some guy on a Germanshepard board ... man, that and that Place Command thing ... that guy never stopped!

Well ... look at the time ... gotta go take "Rocky" out. Oh and by the way congrads on your doggies, I know you guys will do fine. :cheers:



 
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