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Just wondering what peoples thoughts are one these. I only discovered their existance a few days ago as theres one that always barks at us on our normal walking path. Seems to be from an English Bulldog and a Boxer. Though they are 15 generations or so along now. I'm not gonna be some purist snob and discount them as a designer breed as in reality many breeds were created in such a way including our beloved Boxers.

The thing is both breeds they are made from suffer from many health problems. And weirder (to me at least) is that the Boxer has a 10-12 year lifespan and the English Bulldog has a 8-10 year lifespan and yet the Valley Bulldog has a 9-14 year lifespan. Now this is just some light googling and I'm far from having any real understanding of genetics but that just seems weird. The 8-10 between a boxer and a bulldog making an average of 9 I can buy into but how are they obtaining an average top of 14 years with two breeds known for shorter lifespans.

Anyways is anyone interested in discusing them? I tried to do a search but was having issues on my phone and only found a couple threads with some slight references to them. So I appologize if this has been discussed in detail before.
 

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Well that is a new one from but google and I just did a little checking. At first I thought oh know another designer dog, but its not. Most designer dogs come from non ethical breeders or lower quality dogs as many breeders do not want their line mixed with another breed.They worked to hard & long to meet standards so a lot of times dogs that do not conform to standard are used for breeding mixed breeds. Anyway it seems the Valley bulldog has been around for a long time and is a purebred, just not recognized by certain breed clubs. From what I have read so far and the pictures of most I like them. A really blocky heavy duty dog whose appearance could scare people but have the characteristic nature of a goofy boxer.. Is says health has been improved from the breathing issues of the english bulldog but I still think looking at the photos it would have a difficult time, evenly boxer does especially in 90 degree weather. They eem to be more broad chested then your typical boxer which also would make me worry about bloat, though it doesn't mention it. I saw they said they are prone to skin issues, allergies, and breathing issues...You must clean the folds everyday to avoid yeast irritation but we have that in the boxer too. It says in several articles that they must be trained using positive reenforcement methods and must be socialized early on (Z?) no clue...since I don't know anyone who has one I really am not sure of their personalities and quirks. I do like the look of them. I don't know where you would find a ethical breeder and could end up with someone taking a boxer/english bulldog breeding them and thinking 1st /2nd generation is the same as someone who actually has a history where the pups are truly considered purebred. That in itself would probably not lead me to purchasing one. I also love rottweilers, I have had several all were stable healthy dogs and lived till about 10. Because they are considered a dangerous breed by insurance companies, some home owner insurance companies will not insure you or will drop you. Its actually the reason I went to get a boxer instead of another rottie. Again you must buy from a reputable breeder to ensure a good temperament.
I also like the Dogues de Bordeaux and h honestly would have loved to own one. The down side is their life expectancy is like 6 years so again health issues. By the time I pay for the dog, invest my time & more money into it for training and healthcare I'd like it to be around a lot longer. Well those are just my initial thoughts.
 

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Never heard of them till you posted. Have to say I'm not very impressed with the pics I googled.

Looks like a lot of variation in what is bred. Looks like either a stubby boxer or a too tall bulldog. imo
 

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Google does show a large varience in the breed. I believe an issue may be in people simply cross breading a boxer and an english bulldog and calling it a Valley Bulldog. They are supposed to be their own breed at this point and require no crossbreeding.

The one down the road from us is actually a pretty good looking dog. Does remind me of a stumpy boxer but he looks very built and strong. Also looks pretty cute. Could be that he has the same colouring as my late boxer.
 

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Google does show a large varience in the breed. I believe an issue may be in people simply cross breading a boxer and an english bulldog and calling it a Valley Bulldog. They are supposed to be their own breed at this point and require no crossbreeding.

The one down the road from us is actually a pretty good looking dog. Does remind me of a stumpy boxer but he looks very built and strong. Also looks pretty cute. Could be that he has the same colouring as my late boxer.
Yeah, I just think it looks like someone couldn't make up their mind if they wanted a boxer or a bulldog lol, and I'm a fan of both breeds.
 

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I thought I knew them but I got them confused with these guys.
https://www.dog-breeds-expert.com/Alapaha-Blue-Blood-Bulldog.html


And if your looking, don't over look the American Bull Dogs. And there are multiples of them! But the top two, "types" are the Scott American Bull Dog (designed for work, hog catching dogs) as opposed to the Johnson Type Bull Dog Bull (which look like they have more Boxer in them??) Judging by the muzzle?? I have no idea if the Johnson type can actually "work" anymore but they tend to look look like Boxers on steroids! :)

https://pets.thenest.com/difference-between-johnson-scott-american-bulldogs-12991.html

And you'll see the "term" Band Dog, in that link also and Band Dogs are not a "Breed" as such but a form of "work," large dogs designed for "Work." IPO/PPD stuff and such. They don't seem to be that great at the "IPO and Mondo ring" and such. They don't to be appear to be too great at those endeavors however?? As I understand ... they are fairly hard to "motivate??"

But hey, if you hail from cattle and hog catch breeds ... a guy with a stick is not much of a threat?? But when you do get there attention ... they explode!! But if one is serious about the "IPO/Mondo Ring," stuff and even PPD, you'd just get a Mal or a GSD and call it day!

GSD's would be my first choice now cuz you know I had one. So "now" I get them but that said ...if you don't get them right (WL GSD)?? You can have uh "People Issues!" Everyone outside of there pack, is a "threat!??"

Unlike Boxers that if well adjusted, to tend to like everyone as a general rule?? Wl GSD's trust "No one" they don't know! A lot of freaking people find themselves in over there head with those dogs ... all the time! Still they are always number three in most popular dogs in American ... go figure??

I know "nothing of Mal's??" As such save for kinda mouth (Mal-agaitors) and even one of the Pros I follow, has to crate her Mal, to keep him out of trouble when she takes a shower. Her "Pit" she put's in "Place" end of story but her Mal ... not so much?? So in the Crate he goes!

But ... GSD's and Mal's are both used by a lot of top level "dog Trainers" in rehab work for "Aggressive Dog" rehab. Because they are good at "reading dogs!" I saw that with my GSD. If ever there was a dog that was gonna be "Dog Aggressive" I thought, it was him??? But clearly it was not?? His issue was "Rank Drive" and that was .. "at home" with my "Band Dog" ... out and about ..he did not crap a about other dogs ... but that's another story. :)

Back on point, one can't really cast "dispersion's" at the "Valley Bull Dog" because it's not AKC registered?? It takes a lot of time and effort to "establish a "Breed Standard??" But those guys have been around for a long time!

One of the more recent aka accepted "Breed" is the "Dogo Argentino :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogo_Argentino

Just officially recognized a few years ago by the AKC! That is a "Dawg!" And he does have "Boxer content" ... in him to ensure people friendly! Although they do have a propensity to "Dog Aggression" ... unless properly trained ... not a dog for fools. :)

But one can't really "whine" about ... this has Boxer and this does not in them, with Bully's?? The whole "bag of Bully's" all come from "Mastiffs and "English Bull Dogs" ie Dogs of Molosser World.

Molossers breeds (Molosser dogs, Molossers, Mastiff breeds)

As does the Boxer so ...yeah. :)

But the Valley Bull Dog in particular ... was bred to create a better ie more healthy "English Type" Bull Dog. For one he has real legs and a less mashed up face for better breather. It should have fewer "health issues" than a true "English Bull Dog??" And there is also the Rose Bull Dog along those same lines.

So I suppose if you want, you could call them designer dog?? But they have been around in that fashion for 50 years or more I imagine? The lot of them.

And if you wanna go hard core, old school ...ie American Band Dog you'd go wayy back to Swinford's Band Dawg, for a proto type! APBT and Masstiff.

My first dog Gunther was a Band Dog, 25% Bull Mastiff, 25% lab and 50 % APBT ... he did have a problem (for real) with other dogs ... but he got over it with time. :)

At any rate if one gets involved with any "Molosser" type dog, one will find any of them to be "quite familiar" in "personalty??" The more moderate in size "types" Boxerish do tend to be more athletic, the heavier they get the lazier they tend to be ... I imagine?? And the shorter and more Bull Dogish, the more "pigged and stubborn."

Well I got more but that is enough for now. :)
 

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I had a working line GSD 40 years ago. Imported sire/dam both with Schutzhund titles. He was a very well balanced dog, good with people and other dogs. I've also had American bred GSD. Those at least the ones I had had people issues. The working ling was a much more balanced brain wise. He took longer to train in obedience as he would get bored with it. By the time he was 2 he was all together. At that time the vet I went to always had a crowded office. I could put him in a down, people and dogs could walk right over the top of him to get where they were going and he would not budge. I'd say nose down and when he was lying there he'd flatten his nose to the ground. He by far was the best trained, most well rounded dog I ever owned.
 

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If I wanted a dog that was about the same height as a boxer but with more bulk I would probably just get a Rottie.
 

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I had a working line GSD 40 years ago. Imported sire/dam both with Schutzhund titles. He was a very well balanced dog, good with people and other dogs. I've also had American bred GSD. Those at least the ones I had had people issues. The working ling was a much more balanced brain wise. He took longer to train in obedience as he would get bored with it. By the time he was 2 he was all together. At that time the vet I went to always had a crowded office. I could put him in a down, people and dogs could walk right over the top of him to get where they were going and he would not budge. I'd say nose down and when he was lying there he'd flatten his nose to the ground. He by far was the best trained, most well rounded dog I ever owned.[/QUOTE

]Working line, Show line and the American Show Line GSD's, can all have "people issues??" And where they come from (the dog) doesn't really change that, to a degree. If the dog has "solid nerves," (good breeding) can determine the ultimate out come in order to get them uh better. And that does a degree of knowledge and skill?? And uh yeah no "Flooding" with those guys! By there "nature" they are bred to bite, it's part of there DNA. And most (well alot) of "Bully" first and GSD second, owners ... can find themselves in uh ..."Deep Crap" with a "GSD!"

If you get something wrong?? In the first year??? GSD's tend to become subject to the "old my dog changed" bit?? Usually in the 14 to 18 month range. Happens all the time ... still ... apparently. The second "lesson" they will learn is, "Formal Obedience Training, Won't Solve Behavioral Issues."

GSD's can do formal obedience, half asleep. The surprise wil be that just because he/she, Sit's Stays, Downs, Recalls ... etc, etc. Does not mean crap! The issues start at home and how the dog lives with the owner day in day out. And if GSD owners are "Bully ie Boxer" owner first ... that in home "Structure" tends to be uh pretty lose, if practiced at all???

Now I'm gonna guess, that most Boxer owners don't practice "Strict Structure in the home??" Our dogs tend to be free to move about indoors as they see fit ie "Free Roaming" Indoors. They hop on the furniture at will and short of "tearing up stuff" when left alone, few are crated and most sleep in our beds and not in a crate at home.

I don't "know" these things to be true ... but it's how I always rolled and it "was" no big deal ... until it was!! :cry:

And least one tend to think ... well BYB, dogs?? Uh "NO" one of my best "saves" ever was a High End Female GSD gifted to her by her very well off friend. She was a "Very Experienced Bully," owner but her issues with her Wl GSD were so bad that the dog was scheduled for "Death, on that day at 4:30!

I saw the thread but let it go, it seemed the call had been made so you know what could I do?? But one of my friends online reached out and asked me to pitch in. MAWL (Mine Are Working Line) and she has 4 WL GSD and one SL, and the kicker, she is a LE K9 trainer! :)

So there was lot's of help ... including the Dogs Breeder!! But nothing was helping ...thus far?? And the issue was "people!" Everyone aside from her ... was a "threat and it needed to be taken down!!"

I do believe she had even tried to hire a "Trainer" and clearly that did not work?? So I did what I do and sigh ... I explained ... "More and Better Structure" in the home. And of course "Place and Sit on the Dog!"

Well you know time goes by and we heard nothing?? And then one day a few months later ... she post again with her uh other "Dogs??"

Now she made no mention of other dogs before but she post everybody in "Place" with there bones. And my jaw hit the floor. There was the obligatory little dog and her GSD of course but also were not one but two Cane Corso's!!

But the WL GSD was the one giving her grief!?? But if you get them right out the gate (WL GSD) which includes, proper structure in the home, you can sail right thru the "Change Period" and won't even notice it! And when you get it right ... they are pretty amazing freaking dogs, no doubt! They are a "Breed" that will have your back! So you know "folks" here that want a GSD also, you have been duly warned. :)


But you know where do these "potential" issues come from?? Which takes us back on point. And had I stuck with Band Dogs and Boxers/Boxer APBT mixes, ire Bully's. I most likely would have never had so much to say and so much learning to do, and so much to catch up on??

Cuz what I did not know or understand what I was "avoiding" without actually knowing, I was avoiding it, was "High Rank Drive??" A "Breeds desire to climb the Social Ladder." And that info can be found here, under the FAQ ... are they safe with kids? "High Rank Drive discussion. :
https://midgardkennels.wordpress.com/frequently-asked-questions/
 

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If I wanted a dog that was about the same height as a boxer but with more bulk I would probably just get a Rottie.
I think Rotties have "changed" a whole lot since the late 90's??

I know Larry Khron Luv's Rotties, he used to use "Bruno" in his rehab work, but
Bruno passed a couple of years ago. :(

And he replaced him with a Mal. LOL and so it goes yet again GSD's and Mal's are used by lot's of trainers. But while Larry luv's the breed hmm much like me with GSD's he tends not to recommend them to most people. I think ... I saw them mentioned in the link I posted on High Rank Drive and why Mid Guard, does not use them. It's the same issue as the GSD's!

So pretty much what I said would apply. Structure in the home, is important. Get that right and they should be no issue. I grew around Rotties in the 90's cool dogs. But I always considered them kinda boring looking Boxers myself??

And that is about the extent of my knowledge on them. But I think the OP is just exploring options?? And he saw the Valley Bulldog and was wondering what the deal was?? I'll say they are a "cute dog!" I'd not anticipate a lot of issues???

On the other hand ... there are French Bulldogs, and those cute littel dogs can be ... serious A Holes!! We had one with a GSD owner in South America and she came to us with "People Issues" with her "Frenchie???" He tended to attack guest in the home?? And Cesar had his butt handed to him by a "Pet pig killing Frenchy on ear!! It got away from his and mauled his Lama or pig, I don't remember what it was he using as uh "Bait!" I saw the episode and my first thought was ... "He ought to have a leash on that Dog!!"

But hey, he's Cesar and he got his clock cleaned by that Frenchie, hmm maybe he should have taken my advise?? :)
 

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I think Rotties have "changed" a whole lot since the late 90's??

I know Larry Khron Luv's Rotties, he used to use "Bruno" in his rehab work, but
Bruno passed a couple of years ago. :(

And he replaced him with a Mal. LOL and so it goes yet again GSD's and Mal's are used by lot's of trainers. But while Larry luv's the breed hmm much like me with GSD's he tends not to recommend them to most people. I think ... I saw them mentioned in the link I posted on High Rank Drive and why Mid Guard, does not use them. It's the same issue as the GSD's!

So pretty much what I said would apply. Structure in the home, is important. Get that right and they should be no issue. I grew around Rotties in the 90's cool dogs. But I always considered them kinda boring looking Boxers myself??

And that is about the extent of my knowledge on them. But I think the OP is just exploring options?? And he saw the Valley Bulldog and was wondering what the deal was?? I'll say they are a "cute dog!" I'd not anticipate a lot of issues???

On the other hand ... there are French Bulldogs, and those cute littel dogs can be ... serious A Holes!! We had one with a GSD owner in South America and she came to us with "People Issues" with her "Frenchie???" He tended to attack guest in the home?? And Cesar had his butt handed to him by a "Pet pig killing Frenchy on ear!! It got away from his and mauled his Lama or pig, I don't remember what it was he using as uh "Bait!" I saw the episode and my first thought was ... "He ought to have a leash on that Dog!!"

But hey, he's Cesar and he got his clock cleaned by that Frenchie, hmm maybe he should have taken my advise?? :)

Yeah I also grew up with a couple close friends who have them, and my gf just rescued a 3 yr old female. I have nothing but love for Rotties. I'm sure they are out there, just like any breed, but I have yet to meet a Rottie who wasn't just awesome.
 

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Yeah I also grew up with a couple close friends who have them, and my gf just rescued a 3 yr old female. I have nothing but love for Rotties. I'm sure they are out there, just like any breed, but I have yet to meet a Rottie who wasn't just awesome.
Well there you got I've never met a "Bad One" either! But since we moved to NV in 2003 I have seen only one at Pet Parade last month.

Kinda tallish and largish, it struck me as more of a Dane built than a Rottie should be. And I will say ... it's a good thing that guy had a leash on him and quick reflexes!! He went after a little dog that came to close!!

Marilyn screamed when he growled and lunged! But I was watching, saw it coming and was .. well not surprised myself. But the guy was quick so no harm, no foul. But that crap ... is still not acceptable to me!

My Rocky who was both the worst of the worst (Pack Fighting A-Hole!) And the best of the best (saved my butt!) Would never had done that! But you know we never participated because I don't tend to trust other people and there dogs!!

Mostly ... I will conceded I take it to far, I suppose?? A show quality Boxer for me ... would be a waste of money. Cuz that would never happen (participating in a show.) With my dog around so many other dogs ... I'd have a serious panic attack!! A man has got to know his limitations!

Still ... I do good work with dogs! My Bella is "apparently" good with strangers, cats and other dogs?? An ability she showed, over night when she was lost for 24 hours!! I gotta update or a start a thread as I have a "Warning for Harness" users, with less than ... "spectacularly behaved dogs!"

Pet quality harnesses so not talking about "Ruff Ware" of "Julius K9 Harness" wearing dogs. Just your average hmm .... poorly behaved if off leash dogs. :)
 

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Well there you got I've never met a "Bad One" either! But since we moved to NV in 2003 I have seen only one at Pet Parade last month.

Kinda tallish and largish, it struck me as more of a Dane built than a Rottie should be. And I will say ... it's a good thing that guy had a leash on him and quick reflexes!! He went after a little dog that came to close!!

Marilyn screamed when he growled and lunged! But I was watching, saw it coming and was .. well not surprised myself. But the guy was quick so no harm, no foul. But that crap ... is still not acceptable to me!

My Rocky who was both the worst of the worst (Pack Fighting A-Hole!) And the best of the best (saved my butt!) Would never had done that! But you know we never participated because I don't tend to trust other people and there dogs!!

Mostly ... I will conceded I take it to far, I suppose?? A show quality Boxer for me ... would be a waste of money. Cuz that would never happen (participating in a show.) With my dog around so many other dogs ... I'd have a serious panic attack!! A man has got to know his limitations!

Still ... I do good work with dogs! My Bella is "apparently" good with strangers, cats and other dogs?? An ability she showed, over night when she was lost for 24 hours!! I gotta update or a start a thread as I have a "Warning for Harness" users, with less than ... "spectacularly behaved dogs!"

Pet quality harnesses so not talking about "Ruff Ware" of "Julius K9 Harness" wearing dogs. Just your average hmm .... poorly behaved if off leash dogs. :)
The rescue she got was probably the runt of the litter and might be why she ended up in a shelter. Little on the smaller side, between 85-90lbs, but just the nicest dog around adults, kids, other dogs. Only issue we found was she will resource guard only squeaky toys. Instead of dealing with it, I just got rid of the squeaky toys. She has no issue sharing tennis balls etc. I figure no point wasting time on the squeaky toys as the resource guarding doesn't spill into anything else.

Thought you had a thread on your new dog. lol
 

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The rescue she got was probably the runt of the litter and might be why she ended up in a shelter. Little on the smaller side, between 85-90lbs, but just the nicest dog around adults, kids, other dogs. Only issue we found was she will resource guard only squeaky toys. Instead of dealing with it, I just got rid of the squeaky toys. She has no issue sharing tennis balls etc. I figure no point wasting time on the squeaky toys as the resource guarding doesn't spill into anything else.

Thought you had a thread on your new dog. lol
Yeah sometimes it is easier and appropriate to just avoid an issue. Then it is to make a fuss over it, Good call! And yeah she sounds like what I am used to seeing in Rotties??

And I did start a thread but no pictures and no updates! https://www.boxerforums.com/general-boxer-forum/205492-new-dog-house-chip-beat-down-were.html

It's a much bigger change then I expected, still! Such a Hugh change from what I am used to in a dog?? And my standards were raised by my GSD (last day) and now I got a Girl Boxer/APBT and she seems to have "doubled down" on the pig headed and stubborn of "both Breeds!"

She goes "No Where" (now off leash) and that failed also. That will be the update. The cat thing was the first real challenge and that is more "Behavioral" than "Training," and that (with a couple of set backs with two out of tow truly A-hole cats) was no big deal!!

But recall ... still and off leash?? Yeah so far ... not a chance!! Sigh I suppose as well as Rocky/Stewie and my Struddell, I "expect more??" And it is not happening?? I have had success of course and for owners that expect than I do ... apparently, she is a great dog! And that is an Unexpected independent of me assessment!

But for me ... she is a disappointment! I was shooting fro another Struddell and that is ...not what I have. But my wife luv's her, as she is. And having lost her once for 24 hours and seeing how crushed my wife was ... my distance (half way thought of foster and re-home??) Is gone!!

Ticks me off but what are you gonna do?? But until I get her "fixed" to my satisfaction, there is "Not a chance of adding a second dog two our household! Which I did "tell me wife ... in a fashion, when sensing my ... disappointment, she found yet another Male this time, Boxerish dog??

That one had more of a Boxer face than Bella. But too tall and kinda Great Dane ish lean?? Not a look I or Breed I really care for, myself. I got dragged out to see him and did agree to a meet and greet.

But the dog did not live with cats and I have four! And already dealing with one dog and cat issue dog (successfully.)

But cats don't need more stress and I don't need the hassle! I can do one dog v cat, deal at a time but two at once?? Uh no ... I stuck to my own advise ie "have one well trained before adding another!" And said NO.

So we still have only one dog and it will be so for awhile ... apparently. Oh yeah and "Spooky" our tiniest cat, is quite thrilled with Bella!! On occasion I have to stop the two of them from messing around! Bella luv's to throw an arm over her and pin her down! And Spooky ... just lay's there like ... whatever?? They are an odd pair and I have to step in on occasion to stop them from going crazy playing around! I knew Spooky missed her dogs but the two of them can be a bit over the top and neither seems to know when it's time to quit?? Sigh what are you gonna do. :crazyeye:
 

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Chip, I kind of got lost in your post and not sure of your point. As with any dog the owner must know or at least should know the breed and should be the person in charge. I personally like working line GSD. Mine was great with anyone and with kids too. He came from a good line and at that time I belong to the GSD club where I got good training on training. This dog was amazing. I think today people want a dog that has the look but in reality do not have the time to train and many lines have been messed up thru byb. A working lind dog of any breed is not really a good mach for your average family. I also had good rotties. The dogs reputations in my opinion have been ruined because of people who get one and think its all about the cute puppy stage and do not have structure in their homes.
 

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Matt. I love rotties. I have had 4. Everyone was very good around people another animals. I had some acreage when I had them so they got plenty of exercise. They became very popular for awhile and the back yards jumped in and ruined many which lead to their being considered a dangerous dog. My last one, a female we had when we moved to this subdivision. People were like afraid of her but she was so so good. If I were walking and someone was a bit anxious of her she would sit backwards to them like please pet me I'm turning my face away so you don't need to be scared. She was very good with kids, dogs, cats and farm animals. Also when I moved here another neighbor had one, same type of personality a male but he looked menacing. And a 3rd came with a woman who babies her animals and buys from byb. He was not a nice dog and I think would have been one that ruined their reputation had he not been a responsible owner. I think a lot of having any working breed in a family depends on the family and the bloodlines of the dog. GSD, Rotts, Mals are just not for the average family of "today". A lot of people just want a dog to cuddle it seems now adays and do not want train or have structure in their homes, hence why we have so many problems today. Having a dog takes work.
 

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Matt. I love hotties. I have had 4. Everyone was very good around people another animals. I had some acreage when I had them so they got plenty of exercise. They became very popular for awhile and the back yards jumped in and ruined many which lead to their being considered a dangerous dog. My last one, a female we had when we moved to this subdivision. People were like afraid of her but she was so so good. If I were walking and someone was a bit anxious of her she would sit backwards to them like please pet me I'm turning my face away so you don't need to be scared. She was very good with kids, dogs, cats and farm animals. Also when I moved here another neighbor had one, same type of personality a male but he looked menacing. And a 3rd came with a woman who babies her animals and buys from byb. He was not a nice dog and I think would have been one that ruined their reputation had he not been a responsible owner. I think a lot of having any working breed in a family depends on the family and the bloodlines of the dog. GSD, Rotts, Mals are just not for the average family of "today". A lot of people just want a dog to cuddle it seems now adays and do not want train or have structure in their homes, hence why we have so many problems today. Having a dog takes work.
Yeah, definitely agree with that. Most people get working breeds and want them to be couch potatoes. Could never really understand that. Between byb and lazy owners its sad how many working breeds really don't do anything now and are getting so diluted with bad genes. Really just GSD's and mals and certain retrievers that are still popular doing the working stuff.
 

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I am not a fan of the Valley Bulldog phenomena the Bulldogs I have come across owners have told me they are difficult to train have a lot of health issues so I don't see the benefit of a cross with a boxer that doesn't make sense and it seems these dogs could be exploited as some of the other bully breeds are for fighting so just not liking the whole idea I have seen some of them one just recently.
 
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