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Discussion Starter #1
We are sort of considering this as an option. Our yard is over an acre...fencing it in seems near impossible. Plus Brady digs and Abby jumps..we would need something really deep and really tall. (Abby has not yet learned that she could jump OVER something if she wanted...but I am positive that one day she will realize this).  

I see that they now have wireless ones too...any thoughts on this?

I would like them to have some flexability in where they go. Both stay on runners (apart enough that they can't tangle) when we are outside but the other day I was working in front of the house and had to leave them in the back to play outside...i would love to have them be able to wonder with me!  (I don't trust just training them to stay in the yard...our road can be busy at times and I am unwilling to risk it...plus Abby is too excited to meet passer byers and Brady is too excited to chase squirrels birds, etc).  I suppose I could just put extra steaks in the front yard for the cable run...
 

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I've always been worried that they'd be so intent on chasing something outside the fence, that they'd break through, but not be able to get back in.

Hopefully someone with once of these fences will be able to shed some light on this subject.
 

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I lost count of how many dogs I've watched run through electric fences.  They will dart like all get out, take a couple seconds of shock, then know there free to roam.  I am going to fence in the back of our property.  Just enough that our two will be able to run around without there leashes and be happy!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well, I just ordered 2 more stakes for the front yard..at least that way, if I am in front, they can be there with me.  But same as you, I would love to have an area that they could run minus leashes. We have talked about doing a large pen in back of the house...underneath kitchen windows so that I can see them if I need to run inside...to romp around in, but I will still do the stakes for the front bc they won't play usually if we aren't sitting right there for them to use as
home base"
 

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I was always dead set against these invisible fences, shock collars, and other cruel contraptions. I thought they were the meanest things in this world. How could somebody shock their animals?  :x
Well, I finally had to give in and give it a go. I LOVE it!!!  8O
I live in a deed restricted neighborhood that does not allow fences. Well, after fighting with them for over six months about it, I needed to do something. I was really considering moving.  :?
I spoke to several neighbors that had these invisible fences and they swore by them. I'm not the type to chain my animal up, I really don't even like leashes. I like my dogs to be able to run and play freely. Now with Buster I had him trained to a tee....he would stop on a dime if I called him. Now with Maddie....different dog, different story.  :eh:   I was having some trouble with her training, especially to stay in the yard, so I went and bought a wireless electric fence.  With the proper training, it took about two and a half weeks, she has been shocked and gone out of the yard one time! When I say she was shocked, I mean she was shocked on the lowest level. Mine has 4 levels of shock, and before I even thought of putting the collar on her I tried it on myself. I got through to level 3.
She now will sit and watch birds, people on bikes, kids, and yes...even dogs walk by on the sidewalk without even thinking to run out of the yard. It does take a great deal of training, you can't just hook it up and put the collar on your dog and expect him to know not where to go. She now goes outside without the collar and she will obey and not leave the yard. Understand she still is NEVER outside by herself, but she now has the freedom to play outside off leash. She even plays with another dog in the backyard and when the other dog goes outside the boundaries, Maddie will stay inside.
Electric fences are great but they do not keep other critters out of your yard. So other dogs, cats, or racoons can still enter. I have heard of other dogs going through the boundaries and not wanting to come back in, but in my experience that never happened. Maddie went out once, got shocked, and then came right back in.
Fencing is a big decision. There are so many different kinds of fences. I still would've loved to have a 12 foot privacy fence,  :bigrazz:  but since I wasn't allowed, I got the wireless fence and it has worked great for me!  :winkle:
 

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tootsie, THANKS so much for that info!  our friend has a newfoundland who uses one and he's really good with it, too. our place has a teeny yard, so when we move i'll look into this.   :D
 

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I installed Innotek's underground fence when Daisy was a pup. She's been shocked only a few times at low levels. Now it's set to an audible alert and she's been very good about staying inside the fence. She's associated the beep with the shock, so the beep is enough to keep her within the boundary.

The key to the underground fence is training. I trained her twice daily with a loose lead and the flags. She got it pretty quick, but I kept up with the training so the boundary would be set in stone in her head.
 

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BoxerForums\";p=\"7722 said:
The key to the underground fence is training. I trained her twice daily with a loose lead and the flags. She got it pretty quick, but I kept up with the training so the boundary would be set in stone in her head.
Boxerforums pretty much nailed it on the head! Training...Training....and more training is definitely the key to invisible fencing. I also think it worked so well for Maddie because I have a "live" fence. I have a hedge all around my backyard, and when I trained her for the invisible fencing I put the flags just in front of the hedge line so she knows if she goes over the hedge, she goes out of boundaries. I also have the beep only option, but she does associate that with a shock.
I also want to add that you can ruin a well trained dog by not doing the proper training for the invisible fencing. If no training is done and the dog gets shocked, you can literally scare a dog out of training. If that makes any sense at all.
So yes, it is a good option for fencing, but you must commit yourself to the proper training to make it a successfull option.  :wink:
 

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You can also do the training, training, training without actually buying the fence or shocking the dog. ;)

I don't like anything that sends electricity through a dog, so there is a bias here, but I also don't see much value in a fence that won't keep dogs/critters/children/strangers out of the yard.  I, too, have heard far too many stories of dogs that will withstand the shock to chase after something outside of the yard, but won't to get back into the yard.  

For a lower-cost fencing option, you might want to look at www.bestfriendfence.com
 

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All this talk of electic fences to save money on a large plot of land... has anyone considered maybe fencing-in a PORTION of the land specifically to pen-in the dog without the expense of fencing the whole area, or sending an electric current through your dog?

Maybe I'm crazy, but if I had a huge yard and limited cash flow, I would consider fencing-in a smaller portion of the yard just for the dog, rather then trying to shock my dog into staying close to home.

Is fencing a portion of the yard an option?  We own more land then we bothered to fence-in on our property.  We had some "scrub-land" woods on our property, but only elected to fence-in the 'cleared' area for ourselves and our dog.  But I have seen folks fence in small portions of large property strictly for a dog's sake.

Just thinking of an option nobody has brought-up yet.
 

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I have heard many horror stories on electric fences.  In fact a friend of mine that is a canine behaviorist and master trainer has two rescue dogs currently in sessions with her due to electric fences.  I have had my dogs rushed by dogs allegedley contained in their owners electric fences that were not WORKING.  You need to disconnect the collar if there is a thunderstorm in the area as this can be a huge risk to the dog of that extra electrocution.  I have heard of people that used it and forgot to take the collar off the dog when they left with him in the car and he got shocked and was fearful of car rides.  In my opinion my dogs do not need to be out in the yard unless I am supervising them anyway.  Too many risks in the world and unknowns out there.

Nano
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Seems like as many people have great experiences as poor experiences. While I understand people's concerns about "shocking", there's always a good where there's a bad. As for shocking, I believe that many systems provide a "warning buzz" so that the dog avoids being shocked...it's not just that they get to a spot and all of a sudden get shocked. The bad is yes, there is a small shock involved if they ignore the warning. The good is they have the freedom to roam our yard with us without being attached to a leash and crying when we must step out of their bounds. So I can hear them cry when they can't reach me or I can have to get an occassional warning when they get too close to the line. Which the better "good" is, I am not certain.
Unfortunately fencing in part of our yard won't provide the effect that we are hoping for...it still leaves them unable to roam with us if we are working in diff't parts of the yard. The 200 foot runner my husband installed seems to give them more freedom in that regard than what fencing in part of the yard would do for us.
I am not overly concerned about other animals that can get into the yard...the dogs are not outside without us.  I also don't have the piece of mind to simply train them to stay in the yard without a leash or invisible fence...we own an old home which is situated, as are many, on a fairly busy road. It's also corner lot, so there are two roads abutting our property. I don't trust that even with good training that one won't run into the road one day if they see something they really want. I am just not willing to take that risk.
I suppose you always have to make a compromise somewhere...I am hoping with the extra stakes to strategically place around the yard, we can keep them happier when we are outside. Also, my husband and I talked more about doing a small enclosure behind the kitchen....I think we can comfortably make it 8 x 14 or something...just to let them play in without leashes when we are in the backyard. We will see how that goes!
 

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There is a warning sound with many fence systems, but they're meaningless unless you let the dog get shocked at least once, and generally it takes a few times.  (And for those who might say the shock doesn't affect them - it must, or it wouldn't work.)

I don't trust that even with good training that one won't run into the road one day if they see something they really want. I am just not willing to take that risk.
I can understand that, but remember, it's been proven time and again that an invisible fence will not always prevent dogs from running after something they really want.  If you don't feel training is adequate, then the invisible fence probably won't be, either, unless you're using the shock at a setting that causes intense pain, rather than "just" mild pain.  The tie-outs would be more secure as far as that goes - just be aware of growing anti-pet legislation in many areas which would prohibit dogs from being tethered for more than an hour a day.
 

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Newcastle\";p=\"7770 said:
just be aware of growing anti-pet legislation in many areas which would prohibit dogs from being tethered for more than an hour a day.
Really? I would imagine that would only apply within city limits, yes? I'm outside the city limits and even the leash laws don't apply..

Odin's dad, you asked about fencing in a portion of the property.That's what we are doing. We have 2 acres, one is cleared, the other isn't..There is no way that I can afford to pay for fencing around the whole thing, so we are doing a portion of the backyard, then add on more at a later date.. Easy enuf to do, as we are going to use chain link, you just plan out how you want it to look when all done and add a lot of gates...But I believe we will leave the front open, it won't look right otherwise...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Good point about the training issue...
I had not heard about that legislation...seems a bit odd, is this intended just apply to keeping a dog outside as an outdoor dog or also when you are outside spending time in the yard and with them? For example, spending an afternoon on your patio? I would hate to keep my dogs inside because they aren't allowed to be tethered for over an hour! Also seems to go against local laws requiring that dogs be on leash when outside, which I am all for.  

Oh, I would have been in trouble on Saturday, I had both dogs outside with me for about 4 hours in the morning and a couple hours in the late afternoon (of course, on their runners) as I did lawn things and played frisbee with them! But my goodness, they were so happy all day and so tired at the end of the day!  I bought Abby a new frisbee in the a.m. Saturday and by Satruday evening, it was in in 4 pieces and there were little digs all over the yard from her pouncing on it!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
hahaha..I have to laugh too at a limit of an hour per day tethered because just taking them out to "potty" puts them on a tether of sorts for more than an hour per day once you add up that time..5 minutes first thing in the a.m., 20 minutes before we leave for work, 45-60 minutes when the grandparents come to take them out in the afternoon (they always hang out for a bit to let them play outside), 30 minutes when we come home (if it's nice out, I take their food outside for them and sit with them), and about 5 more 5 to 10 minutes trips outside for pottying through the evening.   Of course, this whole time they are supervised...but still tethered.
 

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Newcastle\";p=\"7754 said:
You can also do the training, training, training without actually buying the fence or shocking the dog. ;)
I agree absolutely. However, not all dogs are the same.
I never had any problems with training Buster to stay in the yard.
However, I have done training, training, and MORE training and Maddie still jumped my hedge to get at a passing dog or duck walking by. I hired a trainer come to my house and help me with her training. The wireless fence was my LAST option, being that I am not permitted to have any kind of fencing per my homeowners association. Like I said, if you do not use the proper training with these systems, you can forget it, it will not work, and damage can be done.

nano\";p=\"7766 said:
I have heard many horror stories on electric fences. In fact a friend of mine that is a canine behaviorist and master trainer has two rescue dogs currently in sessions with her due to electric fences.
Nano
That is exactly what I meant by "ruining" a dog. People can't just put the collar on their dog, set the shock to the highest setting to keep the dog contained and go about their business. You HAVE to train the dog to know where the boundaries are.

nano\";p=\"7766 said:
In my opinion my dogs do not need to be out in the yard unless I am supervising them anyway. Too many risks in the world and unknowns out there.
Nano
I agree. Maddie is NEVER out in the yard without supervision.

AbbyandBrady\";p=\"7769 said:
As for shocking, I believe that many systems provide a "warning buzz" so that the dog avoids being shocked...it's not just that they get to a spot and all of a sudden get shocked.
That is correct. Once the dog knows the boundaries, you can set the collar to a "beep only" mode that will beep if the dog gets close to the boundary. On my system there are 4 levels of shock. I have never set it higher than the lowest shock level on Maddie. It will always beep first, and then will only shock if she goes outside of the boundary.

Newcastle\";p=\"7770 said:
If you don't feel training is adequate, then the invisible fence probably won't be either, unless you're using the shock at a setting that causes intense pain, rather than "just" mild pain.
That's very true. I just used the collar to train. She doesn't wear it anymore, and now actually listens to me.  :winkle:
As far as the shock causing pain....I've tried it and I wouldn't exactly call it a pain. It's more of a "what the hell was that" kind of feeling. It will grab your attention. It's hard to describe, but I had to try it before putting it on my dog.  Now level three was enough for me. You could call level three pain.

Like I've said, she has only been shocked one time. And, that was on the lowest shock level.
I know some people will always be against these devices, but in my situation it was truly a miracle training device. Maddie doesn't even need or wear the collar anymore.

I still think that these devices can be abused if used in the wrong hands. I'll never forget one day I was outside with Maddie and a woman came walking by with her Border Collie, no leash on the dog. I thought, wow, well trained dog. Well, the dog stopped to look at Maddie, who was just sitting looking at them. The woman told her dog, "don't even think about it", I said "It's okay if he wants to say hi, Maddie is friendly." Well, the dog started to walk and the next thing I knew the dog went 5 feet straight in the air, and let out this bone chilling howl. The woman had a shock collar on this dog and a hand held remote and shocked this dog with probably the highest level of shock. This dog did NOTHING wrong. Needless to say I went off on this woman. Can't type what I said. I was horrified. So, no it isn't for everyone. I had some of the same negative thoughts on these devices that have been stated, but for me it has been a very positive training device.   :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I agree...as much as these things can be a positive experience for many, there are people who know and feel the need to abuse the device. Not right...

As for legislation, because of my thoughts of it, I did a quick search..here's a wesbite that lists restrictions in many areas:

http://helpinganimals.com/ga_limitedChaining.asp

Some make sense...like during prime heat times in southern areas where the  temperatures can be too extreme for animals (Florida, Indiana, etc). Also there is one that prohibits anything less than 6 foot tethers for longer than a certain period of time...also makes sense. I always look for the longest tethers for the runners. The stationary runner (the stake) has a 25 foot tether I think...the 200 foot runner has a 20 foot tether (to prevent them from getting too close to the woody areas where there are more ticks). Some (I think the Colorado one if I remember?) seem a bit unrealistic. Not everyone can let or want their dogs run free, not everyone agrees with invisible fencing and not everyone has a fencing option (such as restrictions or type of property, etc)...so they can't keep their dogs outside with them when they are out there? Seems awful to keep them confined alone inside if putting them on a runner or long leash is the only option.
 

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I have to laugh too at a limit of an hour per day tethered because just taking them out to "potty" puts them on a tether of sorts for more than an hour per day once you add up that time.
Which is the point, and why most animal welfare groups oppose the newer proposed legislation (animal rights groups, by contrast, support these restrictive and unrealistic laws).  In most cases, there is already existing legislation that addresses cruel tethering - that which over-burdens the dog (heavy weight chains etc.), deprives them of food, shelter, water, etc.
 

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I have been contemplating an electric fence since I got the new pup.   My older boxer I trained to stay in the yard she does really well except when the rabbits are in the back yard, then all training is out the window and all you see is grass and dirt flying from where my boxer used to be.  After reading this I may go ahead and get the fence.
 
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