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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I meant "Training" lol

Hey again! I didnt realize all this time that there was a three post requirement so heee is my third one!
Snow & I have been going to these training classes. We have one more next week then we are on our own. Snow is a puller so i got her an easy walk harness & one of those rope leashes. We had the retractable (and still do) but she would go ape sh$t over squirrels and almost pull my arms out the socket. Plus i ripped the skin off one of my fingers grabbing the retractable leash cord one day.
The easy walk harness works great but if i dont use it, it takes her almost the entire walk to stop pulling. Last week at the class we did loose leash walking & the teacher said it can take up to a year for dogs to get this. That seems like a really long time!
Training un general was so so. In class Snow is a really good student and sometimes when we are out shes good but she has seemingly entered into a phase where she doesnt want to do the thing unless there is a treat, she doesnt come or listen all the time and sometimes she just runs in the opposite direction when i call her. Especially if she picks up some unknown (usually trash) off the ground. She does NOT do drop it well at all, she thinks that is her que to play chase.
I wonder if i should practice with her more in the house instead of in real life situations?
Also i messed around & let her sleep in my bed a few times and now ahe pretty much thinks its our bed lmao. Im trying to change this cuz i think that is why she has selective hearing & obeying?
Training is much harder than i thought & i wonder if i should send her off somewhere or have a more intense one on one type thing? Or if i should save my loot & just keep at it myself!
Not sure if im asking anything ot juat sharing/venting! Lol

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Not sure if im asking anything ot juat sharing/venting! Lol

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Well maybe your doing both ... but you got your point across! :)

Yeah you do have a few issues, her selective hearing being one of them?? But all of that is ...pretty much par for the course with Boxers ... for the most part??

I dealt with that myself for a bit with Struddell, but she got over it. But that said, and I'm going to "speculate here" ... I tend to thing ... that owners who did not Crate Train, their dogs ... are more subject to seeing "crap behaviour" like you describe??? Proper Crate Training helps to establish, a foundation for Rules/Structures and Limitations.

The Crate thing ... is just an "assessment" as to why you are seeing such a high level of Goofy??? It's not necessarily a recommendation to do so (Crate Train.) And it's not all bad news as you overlooked what she is getting right???

I saw no mention of tearing up stuff in the home or bitting or threatening people??? Those are big deals, if you have a dog/puppy doing crap like that ... then that is a dog/puppy ... that you need to Crate Train! I learned that lesson the "hard way" with my first Working line GSD .. cause you know "my other dogs" ... did not need no Crate??? Aww well lesson learned. :crazyeye:

So Crate or don't Crate that is your call?? I will say for the record that if you did send her off for a "Two Week" board and train ... she would be Crate Trained ... facts are facts. Well a long tangent there but stuff you should know in anycase.

So at this point let's get to it. You can't fix everything at once and in the process of trying to do so, your getting some pretty bad advice from some so/called trainer??? Your currently struggling with the one thing you "NEED" to be able to do ... in order to get your girl under control ... "Walk Your Dog." The ability to do that one thing, is pretty much all you need to know?? Once you can do that ... all the rest will fall into place.

I learned that simple lesson with my Girl Struddell (who slept in my bed also ... just saying.) And "walking" her (with just a regular collar and flat leash at the time) proved so simple that I overlooked the true value to being able to do so?? That mistake would come back to haunt, me a few years later with my first WL GSD?? The only dog I had serious (IE send you to the hospital for stitches with (Breaking Up Pack Fights)) is the only dog ... I did not WALK! Uh ... lesson learned ... yet again. :cry:


So that said, flat out straight up ... "NO," competent qualified trainer ... that actually knows what they are doing ... would tell someone "it could take a year to be able to properly walk there on a loose leash???" If they do ... "I would" thank them for there time and move on. If they can't teach a dog to walk properly on a loose leash in a reasonable amount of time?? They are most certainly a waste of time and money and rest assured if you dog does develop "serious issues" they can't help you. And I'll just glaze over the fact that ... the longer a dog practices an unwanted behaviour ... the better at it they become! SO having a dog pulling and tugging on a leash for a year .. is "NOT" the road to success???

So summing, up start over and loose the "harness." No serious trainer uses a "Harness" to train a dog to walk properly on a loose leash, uses a harness?? You can't correct or control a dog on a "harness??"

The vast majority of "Pro's," use a properly fitted Prong Collar, and teach there clients how to properly do so or these days all seem to be using/traing the E-Collar (not my thing cause it's to just more stuff to deal with) or a very, very few train there client how to properly use ... that Rope Thingie, that you seem to have. :)


And that thing would be called a "British Slip Lead Leash" and as it happens ... that is my tool of choice. It's the only "tool" that most rescues will let you use on there dogs, end of story! It worked out just fine for me at "Boxes and Buddies" ... for others not so much??

But for those that want to know how to use one properly ... I tried here.:
https://www.boxerforums.com/training-behavior/179513-slip-lead-leash.html


And so you know ... there is a lot of info there about "Walking a dog properly" ... so have a look and of course as always ask questions. Welcome aboard and I think you can do this. :)
 

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Snows mom...Training...It takes a long time. I would say our boxer was fully trained and no longer pulls but he will be 4 later this year. He can now be walked on a flat collar. We used a prong collar for training all his walks. I am presently trying my standard poodle pup who is almost 7 months. He has loose leash walking down pretty well but he is on a prong collar. I use a flat nylon or leather leash. No retractable leah they are horrid. If your interested in using a prong be sure you use it correctly, you don't yank on it. The dog will do it once or twice yelp slightly and will learn not to pull. When you first walk take a treat and hold the treat in your hand at your side where the dog should be walking keep it in front of his nose, ass he is walking next to your side give him pieces of it and have him sit every time you stop. Eventually you won't need the treat each time but keep one handle to let him know he is doing a good job, and talk to him so he is engaging with you. I'm no trainer but this approach has helped me tremendously with my present pup. He also gets some free walking where can walk ahead and sniff around but he doesn't pull, if he does I bring him back in. On his recall every tmie he comes to you praise the heck out of him. Never get mad at him even if he was on his worse behavior, when he comes he is good no matter what. I also have used a small can of wet food in practice and overtime he comes to me he gets a lick of it. LOL Sometimes I hide around the side of the house call him and when he comes he gets one. I never chase him and if he doesn't come I just ignore it until he does. Sometimes its a waiting game. We are constantly working on this. I also play ball with him at first he would run after the ball get it then run all over the yard and not come back with it. I don't use the come command I use bring it, find the ball. We have been doing this for months, this week now that he will be 7 months he brings it back and drops it at my feet mot overtime when he doesn't I sit down and ay well if you want me to play bring it, he thinks about it then does. The drop it command you will also have to practice but I would do this on leash in the beginning its a trade off, drop it, get something nice. Some treats are higher value to them, I use those for the recall. We have leah laws here so my dog probably won't ever get off leash outside of my fenced yard but we practice anyway, just in case. I also teach him wait, wait at door until I step out, and say free time, wait in car till I say free time. Its a slow process but we are getting there you will too. Sorry for long post.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Lindar & Chip!! You guys gave me some really good info and helped me realize that it is a process and if we keep at it, we will get it.
I was actually at the store to get the prong collar but i got scared off by the look of it & the store keeper's warning about possible injury. So i got the easy walk thing. But my uncle also suggested it so idk i will think about it more!
Snow is actually pretty well behaved for the most part. We had a decent home training session yesterday. There are leash laws in my state too i think, not sure if im breaking them lol but our back yard is not fenced in & she ran into the street one time i let her off to play ball.
Yesterday was really my first time trying to focus on training at home, im a lil all over the place i realize and as a result she is too lol
Ive been giving her treats and tons of praise & i will work on not getting upset or frustrated when she does run off. I think that it was fear motivated & ive decided i won't let her off leash unless its enclosed & safe. The beach is a maybe cuz she does mostly good there & doesnt have many places she can run about which i think she needs due to her country upbringing.
So u guys are NOT about the harness aye? I feel like shes doing good on it so i may just use it in the morning walk when i dont have time for pulling & use the rope leash & her reg collar in the evenings? Im a lil leary about the prong collar but it seems to work for so many! I dont use the retractable much any more except for bathroom breaks in the yard so i dont have to follow her around while she looks for a spot.
For treats i give chicken bits, or turkey from the deli which i have discovered are a higher value than the chicken to her.
It really is a day by day learning process! Based on what u guys have said it seems like im giving her a lot of freedom as far as leaving her crate door open while im at work? She actually seems to spend the day in there anyway! When i get home that is where she greets me from. When i leave she goes right in there and lays down and it basically looks like thats what she does all the day. I also work from home 2 days a week & she does the samething (pic below from yesterday lol)


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You need to set your priorities correctly. The only truly alarming part of the your last post is ... "she ran into the street!" You seem to learned from it, which is good ... don't let her off leash unless it's an enclosed area. You got lucky and she was not injured.

And so you know ... (And although I tend to disagree) the number three cause of death in Boxer's is from trauma! They don't listen and can be a rather uh "hair pulling experience to train for most people ... especially the girls (my favorites.) But you got lucky ... this time!

The worst way to lose a dog is because of a failure in properly training them. That will lead to pretty much a lifetime of regret for the dogs owner! Sadly I can say ... been there done that but that's another story. :(

I did not know about "proofing a behaviour at the time??" But what I did know that this will not happen again! And that the best preparation for the unexpected ... is a well trained dog!! And that one ... I got right!!

And Boxers especially the girls need to be well trained and well disciplined or they will get themselves killed!! Boxers would be the poster child for "Speed Kills." They don't care where they are going or thur what??? As long as I get's there first is all they care about!! It's up to the owner to provide the "common sens for there dog" cause Boxers you know ... don't have that kinda time??

Until you have "true control over her ... yes don't let her off leash in an fenced area ...
Greyhound 101 I do believe. :)

And as far as the Crate thing goes ... no your not strictly speaking following Crate Training protocol?? But I'd not worry about it with your dog. A big part of the Crate thing is to keep the dog safe and out of trouble when left home alone. And your dog despite your rather unorthodox approach to Crate Training ... appears to be fine left alone at home??? You should consider that ... a job well done and move on. Pick your battles wisely. :)

And as far as "recall goes" LOL well ... sorry folks but if your willing with Boxers ... your not dealing with the sharpest tool in the tool box??? "Herder Dogs" (I just lump them all together) Poodles and GSD's are the pointy end of the spear! Boxers are more in the middle of the shaft ... next to Mal's I will add. Which is not say they are dumb ...it's just that you have to convince them first ..."why exactly should I care what you say ... exactly???"

Wayyy back then when I had my American Band and my Boxer/APBT and got my first Boxer Struddell ... I was a bit dumbfounded at the lack of ability to recall this girl ... WTH, is this crap??? I could not figure it out but something had to be done?? So I said well screw this if she won't come back ... then next best thing is to be eyes on and stop her in her tracks!!!

Recall I figured takes to much processing power??? It means to the dog stop doing what I am doing, turn around and return to owner??? I thought well screw that and I went with "Stay and then Down!" I stopped the forward motion and gave her a chance to think it thur?? And then called her back, I add the "Down" if required! And a tip ... Boxer's don't seem to really like the "Down" command ... because it means "Playtime" is over???"

And I knew "Down" ticked her off! Because she would blow her flews in prostation as she flopped down. Down and No ... were pretty much the only forms of "Correction" I ever used with her. :)

I got more on the Prong thing but this is enough for now. :)
 

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Depends what you want to use the harness for. If its for walking, probably a horrible idea. A harness for a working dog means pull.

I use a harness for bike rides and an SLL for walks. He has two completely different behaviors for both tools. If he is on the harness during a bike ride and we stop to talk to someone or see one of his dog friends he will pull. I don't try to correct him for that behavior(within reason) because its what I'm asking him to do on a harness. If we are walking and do the same thing on the SLL he will never pull.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Did I mention this is my first dog ever?? I am learning a lot about her limitations lol u know, I thought something was up with her mentally and i was beginning to suspect shes more than just a goofball. All good to know & keep in mind. I dont think i will get as frustrated with the not listening lol

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Did I mention this is my first dog ever?? I am learning a lot about her limitations lol u know, I thought something was up with her mentally and i was beginning to suspect shes more than just a goofball. All good to know & keep in mind. I dont think i will get as frustrated with the not listening lol

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Oh ... I did not know that?? Well if that is indeed the case ... you got a good dog and you are doing great thus far! :cheers:

The behaviour in the home ... is usually a first time (Dog) owners biggest stumbling block and you two just seem to have gotten that right out the Box, hmm ... no pun intended. :)

And now your just dealing with typical Boxer stuff. The only thing that is a disadvantage for you .. is not having a fenced back yard. You could consider the invisible fence thing ...but sometimes technology fails and it won't keep other dogs out.

And while this was a slight aside, brought on by your first dog??? My point is for you ... getting the Walk thing right is "critical." If you get that part right ... everything else "Will" fall into place.

People badly underestimate the value of "Walking there dog!" I did myself and as I have said (somewhere) the only dog had uh ... serious issues with is the only I did not spend one on one time with walking! (For the record ... I blame Struddell for that over cite on my part. Never had any behaveoural issues with her ... but when I fianlly understood that I had to walk (he and I alone) she would have a freaking cow!!! But it had to be done or Rocky (WL GSD) was in serious peril, he was gonna hurt someone uh aside from me, sigh and Gunther!!!

And it worked out so well in fact that it took me literally four years, to fully understand what I had acomplished seemingly without much effort???

And although I may have posted (this) the answer as to how what I did worked and why ... I only understood myself when I heard it explained by Larry Khron here.:

And your new and I know I say Rocky, Rocky, Rocky, but know ,who is Rocky??? Rocky was my greatest challenge and biggest success! But although I did not fully understand at the time (again see Larry Khron) everything I did ... I learned from Struddell (my White Boxer) who looks and sounds very much like your girl, I'm jealous so you know. :)

But Struddell, is how I first learned to walk a dog (properly) ... using nothing more than a regular collar and a flat leash! I'd never used a Slip Leash, until they handed me one at Boxer Buddies event (I work rescue, uh to try and find a dog I can't walk ... just saying) and a "claimed serious pulling Boxer." And yeah he was ... but not for me. :)

But Rocky and my story is outlined here.:
What would my dog do? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Oh wow! Thanks Chip, i will check it out. You work in rescue? Sounds like u have a ton of dogs and experience? Lol
I didnt realize white boxers were such a rarity? Well thats what ppl keep telling me anyway & they keep asking me if shes deaf or blind lol she doesnt seem to be! Is that a thing with white boxers tho? She is white and not albino so maybe there is confusion there?
I watched that other video where the guy just stood there with the dog & kept her close so that she eventually followed him on her own. That seems doable to me. I'll have to watch it again to see how long he did it for. Could it be done in like daily increments like 10 or 15 mins a day?
We have a little free time/break from our routine for a few days to try it out. Ive just taken Snow on our first road trip vacation this weekend to my cousins house lol she cant sleep in my room here so its a little challenging for us tonight lol which i have to say im shocked about it for myself lol which is kinda why im up so late reading these posts & watching training videos lol

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Nope Whiter Boxers are not rare, 25 to 30%, of all Boxers are born White. But in America ... for a very long time, the Whites were being "Culled" at birth by Breeders, in American not so much in Canada.

The Whites can't be shown in "Conformation" DOg Shows "because" they can't be used as K9's because "Da rulz's" say that if a "Working Line Dog" can't do the job it's "Breed to do .... then it can't be shown. And the White's aren't K9's because they are to easy to see at night. It has nothing to do with what the White Boxers can or can't do!

Now I'll say try spotting a White Boxer at nigh if it's snowing ... good luck with that! But that's another story. :)

At any rate, tell people they can't have something ... and that then becomes what they want! That's a "part" of why I wanted a "White Boxer" ... I had a lot of Heart Break, with Fawn and Brindles ....

This was the state of affairs in the late 90's to early 2000's, I got Struddell in 2003 ...specifically because she was a White Boxer. The culling situation has changed now, most likely it started to change when I got Struddell?? And now if you look at a lot of Breeder pages you will see a "White Boxer Friendly" logo on there Home Pages ... the above explanation ... is what that's about.

So while White Boxers are not rare, they are also not very common in "the real world??" Save for my Struddell I have never seen a "White Boxer???" And most likely if you have one ... expect to be asked if she's a Pit ... by the unknowledgeable. :)

White Boxer Dogs | Boxer Dog Information Center

Oh and they say, that White Boxers are subject to "Sunburn???" You have to keep an eye on her of course but ... I found that to be myth myself. Struddell lived and played in the High Desert Sun of NV and the one thing we have in the Summer, is a lot Heat, Sunlight and uh ... not a lot of "Shade." You need "TREES" to have shade ... as I recall??? :)

And ... nope not a "ton" of dogs. I learned a lot from a few! And most of the more subtle stuff ... you won't find in a book??? I have a lot of ... "Chipism's??" Such as "This dog ... is not your other dog, work with the dog in front of you, paws on the ground as it were. And ... all behavoural issues, start in the home!" I got stitches figuring those out, with Rocky my first (Wl GSD.)

I raised trained him like I had Gunther (American Band Dawg) and Struddell?? A lot of freedom and a lot of loose structure, with them (No Carte Training, worked out fine) and yeahs sure "Formal Obedience training" it worked with them. So you know ... it should work with Rocky?? Yeah ... not so much??

It was again long after I had my issues with him solved, when I stumbled across Larry Khron and saw this clip.:


LOL well ... better late than never. :)

And sure he uses E-Collar and Prongs Collars and Dominate Dog Collars (the only tool more misunderstood that the other two. But that does not matter ... the concept is what is important. "Show the dog, what you want (first) and the rest ... falls into Place.

And the rescue thing ... well that is how I stumbled unto Rocky! Foster Fail he was a "Wobble Dog" and had difficulty walking. His disability placed a limit on "Corrections" and also lead to "everyone" involved in "underestimating his ability to do damage" to dogs (not Struddell) or people!!

So no "Crank and Yank" training ... at all! I had to "outhink him" ... worked out fine! Turned out fine and I settled down. But struggling with him took me out of rescue work as he was a full time job! But got it done and years later ... I went online to share info. And I got back into rescue after seeing so many people struggling with just walking there dog's???

Well, I'm like show me! My dogs were fine no longer a challenge so I went out to find these dogs that "can't walk on a leash??" I have only found two out of about a dozen that were challenges a 85 lb ployer/downer ( all problems start at home!) But when I drove off home turf no problem! (Lesson learned there) And a big headed Pitty! That had never been on leash before!! It took ten minutes (a long time for me ...just to get him to move! And when he did, he darted hard to the right in front of me ... WTH??? But the owner did not care, about the dog's leash manners so that was as far as I got with him.

Hmm quite a tangent?? I have another post for you, I need to post and then I'll catch up with current questions here. :)
 

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If he still has dogs observe them?? If they walk well on leash and don't have behaviors that you find disturbing ... go with that! FOr the most part a "Prong Correction" is gonna be a wrist sideways with a properly fitted Prong Collar. And depending on the dog they might yelp?? But they will also "choose to make better choices" if that situation occurs again? IE ... don't act like a tool!

But for the most part with most "normal dogs" and a skilled "Prong Collar" user an observer ... would not even see a correction to the dog being given!!

That is how it should work! I don't use one myself ... I messed it up using one "incorrectly with my first dog" ... my bad.

So after that fiasco ... I said screw it. I won't use any "tool" Regular Collar and a Flat leash and I'll figure it out. And with my Struddell ... LOL I exceeded expectations and I never looked back.

But you know in doing what I do online, I look for trainers that could actually help by "showing there work." And I would see that pretty much ever trainer who's advise I share all use and train there clients to properly use a "Prong Collar??"

And that's when I realized, that it is not about the "Tool" it's about the user! Any tool improperly used ... can be abused. It's pretty much that simple.

But it was years before I understood "the above??" In the meantime I now had Struddell ?? And since I was now not going to use a "tool" what do I do to figure the walk thing out??? Well Flath Leash and regular collar it was and I figured it out.

So well in fact that even a little old lady with a Cane, could walk my uh Open Desert, Off leash, Jack Rabbit Chasing Boxer ... without issues.

And as to how exactly I trained her to walk properly with nothing more than a Flat Leash and regular collar ... well that was what 15 years ago?? Third dog and I did not "document anything?? But the internet is your friend. And if I did not document it ... someone else did?? You just have to find them??

And of course I did! I have come to learn he is also know as "Doggy Dan??"
German Shepherd Dog Forums - View Single Post - New Dog, Very Challenging

The first video clip here ... is pretty much exactly what I did with my Struddell!! And I will say that if one does that and it right ... transitioning to a SLL ... is nothing!!! The difference is time. A flat collar and leash with a dog you don't that "issues" with walking could a couple of weeks?? But using a SLL with the same difficult dog?? Takes about uh Five Minutes been there done that in the absolute worst conditions possible! And an onlooker ... would have seen "nothing Untoward" being done to the dog!

Now if one would have tried to walk that same Boxer on a Halti or EZ Walk or other assorted Harness Crap ... Yeah ... good luck with that!




But that photo at the end best sums up the anti Prong folks. :)
So if you want to use study up and ... listen to your uncle!

You do need to use a real tool to train your dog, but it need not be a Prong Collar?? I just have an issue with people that "can't" save dog's with serious freaking issues ... ie Dog Killers and People Biting, issues, claiming that "Luv and cookies can solve all problems! They ought to wear a T Shirt that says ...If a Cookie Won't Fix it, PTS will! Cause that is ... what they do! :chair:

A cookie or no cookie ... is not a "Consequence." PO Trainers can't help dogs with serious issues! So when I had serious freaking issues with Rocky ... I ruled out PO trainers for "advise." I looked for Trainers that deal with serious issues and I'll do that. Well ... kinda. The second link is actually ... all I did. And I had done that also with Struddell ... kinda. Except with her when asked to pet ... I'd always said "yes Please Do. :)


But with Rocky ...what if instead I'd say "NO??" I just put a more aggressive spin on "No" by stopping 5 feet away if approached and Blocking Access to him. For awhile I'd tell him to stay and I stepped in front of him. If pressed I'd say he's in training. No one ever asked training for what?? If they did ... I'd have said ..."He's in training to learn not to bite the Crap out of people ... and that was indeed true. :)

But there was no force, no harsh corrections. I merely "showed him what I wanted" (don't be biting the crap out of people dog!!) And he got that because (even though at the time ... I did not know what I was doing???)
Rocky thought I did. :)

GSD's (apparently don't bare fools well.) If your not firm leader with the wrong GSD ... your gonna have "issues."

Now without throwing any WL Breed under the Bus. I'll say my next Boxer may or may not be Crate Trained??? I don't know?? But my next GSD ...yeah he will be Crate Trained! Lesson Learned. :)

And I got kinda lost in my assorted posts?? So let me know if I posted "What Would My Dog??" It sums up Rocky and my relationship. We were not on friendly terms once, he started to attack my Band Dawg!!!

Five freaking times and a trip to the ER for me! Breaking up pack fights ...yet another misunderstanding on part?? Two Dogs are a pair, three dogs are a pack??? Lesson Learned. :)
 

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I watched that other video where the guy just stood there with the dog & kept her close so that she eventually followed him on her own. That seems doable to me. I'll have to watch it again to see how long he did it for. Could it be done in like daily increments like 10 or 15 mins a day?
I'm not sure which clip you are referring to??? But I know my "Dawgs" (trainers I tend to recommend.) SO take note of the little things, no treats, not a lot of vocalization ... let the dog figure it out?? No coercion and no corrections, no "Prong Collar or sigh ... harness. And the dog is in a "distraction free environment ...ie no triggers for bad behavior!

Now the keeping her close thing ... I think is something different?? That maybe the link to "Set on the Dog???" That is a different technique than training your dog to walk on loose leash?? So you'll need to clarify what your looking at for me???

You already have an established pattern of behavior with her. So with you she automatically says "I do this." So you have to first ...break that pattern!


Now in the beginning, that dog is on a harness, but Larry just got the dog and that was what was on her. He can do that ... because he knows what he is doing?? And flattering myself most likely I could also with the same dog??
But you know I would not. I detest those things so much ... I have fashioned a SLL out of a freaking Jump Rope!! And I wrangled up a "Door Bolter" and walked her home to her owner without issue! When we got to the dogs home, the owner said her dog has never been on a leash in her life!??? :)

At any rate the praise is fine but loose the treats (for now.) And keep your mouth shut ... you put the leash on her and you "wait!" Now I will add that if you use a SLL and you snug up with the "little tabby thing" you may get more of a reaction from here?? Bu the principle is the same ... you would say nothing and wait and some point the dog will stop ... and sit down ... and if you still say nothing?? They will look up at you and to say ... "OK, what's next???"

AT that point you look down say good dog and OK and off you go! :)

We have a little free time/break from our routine for a few days to try it out. Ive just taken Snow on our first road trip vacation this weekend to my cousins house lol she cant sleep in my room here so its a little challenging for us tonight lol which i have to say im shocked about it for myself lol which is kinda why im up so late reading these posts & watching training videos lol

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Yeah ... that's kinda whay I don't take my dogs to friends/relatives home! Did you take her Crate and how is she doing???
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hey Chip! Thanks! Im gonna go for the no treats no talking thing today lol (and going forward) that will be challenging for me lol.cuz i realize i do a lot of talking lol. The no treat thing will be good cuz its starting to seem like she needs a treat to listen & that is NOT how i want it to go! Gonna stop using the harness for now. We went on a walk this morning and it went pretty good.
She is doing fine now, I brought her travel crate which is much smaller than her regular crate & im pretty sure she doesnt like it cuz she cries when i leave her initially. Well last night i slept down in the dog den on the couch with her lmao. I just couldnt do it. I dont leave her crated all day & night at home so yesterday i spent the day dog sitting so that the dogs could just walk around & play. Today i have to work, so i wont be able to hang out with them. But i will probably let them out when i get off this afternoon.
Playing the waiting game is deff challenging on the patience lol but being outside of our regular environment i can see that we are doing good but need to improve on some things.
The video u just posted "how training starts" is the the one i was referring to.

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OK you brought a travel Crate! I was wondering about that ... good call. And you slept downstairs with her on the couch. LOL ... now that is "COMMITMENT!" :clap:

And sigh ... you just seem to have a knack for bringing up topics ... that just force me to go off topic, kinda?? But it's a stacking up of the little things that can add to big issues?? So that said ... here we go.:

The treat thing, you don't need to stop there use (completely) but you do "need" to understand how to use them ... properly.

Treats can be used to "lure and shape a behavior" by using them to get a dog into a position. And as a right reward for a job done right!

But over use leads to "bribing" and that's not what you want. In addition if the dog does not care for the treat ... there not going to perform (ie I don't care.) And most likely especially with Boxers (I would say) the "over use of treats) let's to excitement! And instead of making things better, treats can make training more difficult .. they are overused??

You don't want her to view you as a "Treat Dispenser??" I had that problem with Struddell and once I finally recognized "that" issue ... I of course went hard core and just stopped using treats period!

Now that is not a radical concept. Some trainers that I do follow and share and follow ... don't use treats. They use primarily praise and toys as a reward. MWD/LE/IPO/PPD's dogs don't work for treats??

They work for their favorite toy's. "If I find a Bomb, I gets paid and playing with Duck is
,my best reward! Kind of cheap pay day for risking one's life but dogs you know. Toys as a reward?? Was news to me, I think like most average Boxer owners I thought toy's were something to be tron up and strew liberally about living room, live and learn.:)

But to make a long story short ... you can still use treats as a reward, in the beginning but you should "Randomize The Use of Treats." Sometimes they get a treat and paise and sometimes it's praise only??

Michael Ellis ... this guy.:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=michael+ellis+dog+training

He is admittedly an excellent trainer! And a fan favorite on Germanshepardforum. But I had issues with him of course. Not with what he knows but I "felt" that one was not working with him in "Real Life" his recommendations could be kinda confusing???

Nonetheless, he does offer a lot of excellent insight into the psychology of dogs. I find Larry Khron, a lot more relatable and easier to follow however.

And yet another trainer you should be aware of and aginn ranks high on the "relatable scale is "Brittany."


In a lot of her videos, she does explain the use of treats and how and why.

Ok I'll get back on point. :)
 

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I watched that other video where the guy just stood there with the dog & kept her close so that she eventually followed him on her own. That seems doable to me. I'll have to watch it again to see how long he did it for. Could it be done in like daily increments like 10 or 15 mins a day?l

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OK back on point ... and yes ... that is how it starts! No pressure, no commands and limited input. Let the dog figure it out!

Larry I see "now" just started working with whatever crap the owner had on the dog when he got it?? Well he's a "Pro" so he can do that. :)

But take note that, there is still not a lot of conversion involved in the beginning. And if you do use a "SLL??" Your gonna force the issue! THe SLL when properly used, goes high and snug using the little tabby thing. And that is how the SLL works! The sensation of the leash being high and snug can freak some dogs out but other don't seem to notice that much.
And ideally ... after the initially "protestation" the dog will stop ...
sit, wait and then look up at you to await further instruction??? At that point you'd look down say OK and off you'd go ... pretty much hassle free from that point on, with that particular dog. :)

That volunteer Sit, shows one thing in particular that a "Pro" friend of mine pointed out and got flack for. Sit ... is a useless behaviour (with dogs with serious issues) for the most part. Dog's will "offer a Sit" when they are confused?? If you have a dog that you need to have "Control Off." You use/train a "Down and Stay!" Down and Stay equal control ... Sit ... not so much. Anyway ideally all of that usually, take less than Five minutes and after that ... the dog walks fine. :)

But the daily increments is fine ... by and large, and repations is the key to success in dog training.

What tool are you using to walk her and ... getting out of her usually routine ... is a great step! She is much more willing to look to you for direction, since she is unfamiliar with her surroundings! I should have remembered that as one of the two dogs ... that I could not to get to walk in less than 5 minutes, did have a home turf issue! But let us know how it goes?? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yeah i tried the waiting thing yesterday & it took some time but she eventually made the "right" decision. Today is a struggle however cuz she is pretty miserable in the crate & was crying & howling. I cant let her out without letting the other dog out & i dont want to break his routine so I actually decided to bring her & her mat upstairs with me. Lol i must admit I have become a bit sappy over this puppy lmao
I have been using the harness in the morning & flat leash in collar in the afternoon & just stopping when she pulls and waiting for her to stop & come back to me. Shes catching on!
I did stop the treats completely because i do think i was overusing them & itnwas starting to get bribey


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Did I mention this is my first dog ever?? I am learning a lot about her limitations lol u know, I thought something was up with her mentally and i was beginning to suspect shes more than just a goofball. All good to know & keep in mind. I dont think i will get as frustrated with the not listening lol

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You are getting some great advice. Consistency is key for sure. They will train you for certain if you let them. Keep in mind they are a stubborn breed and making things seem fun to them can help you both.

They are similar to children in that they all have their own personality, and are motivated by different things.

Our boys sleep in our bed. I don't see a difference in their behavior from it. They know we are the alpha's, and they know their commands. They get used to your tone too and they know when Mom or Dad is not happy.

I'm sure you'll get into a groove. It takes time and patience, but you'll get there.
 

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Our boys sleep in our bed. I don't see a difference in their behavior from it. They know we are the alpha's, and they know their commands. They get used to your tone too and they know when Mom or Dad is not happy.
LOL, three Boxers and they sleep in your bed also?? And yet you don't seem to have horry stories to share. :)

You are a "Boxer Goddess!!" Just saying. :)
 

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I have been using the harness in the morning & flat leash in collar in the afternoon & just stopping when she pulls and waiting for her to stop & come back to me. Shes catching on!
I did stop the treats completely because i do think i was overusing them & itnwas starting to get bribey


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The treats thing, you understand the potential issue and that is what is important so your call there, no problem. :)

But the harness in the morning and a regular collar and leash in the evening?? For me ... that's just a hard no?? Why do that?? Your just confusing your dog??

"NO ONE" that knows what they are doing does that?? If there is a single trainer that does or recommends that?? I have not found them???

NO ONE, that trains dogs serius dogs ... uses a "Harness to train their dogs to walk properly on a loose leash uses a harness to do so???

NO ONE, who's lives dependents on there dogs absolute obedience, uses a harness to train them to walk on a loose leash uses a harness???

My life is not in my dog's hands. But the level of obedience I expect and got from my dogs is at that same level!!

My Boxer and my Band Dawg ... were never a threat to human life! But my GSD was!! And under carefully controlled conditions ... he was "proven" to have a serious dislike for toddlers!!

He was most definitely ... "NOT" a family friendly dog!! He did not like toddlers, he not like guest in his home!! Still he was taught to make "Good Choices." By using a SLL and a regular collar and a flat leash!

And with those "tools" I taught him to "Make Good Choices!" I am a firm believer in "Crap Happens???"

And no matter how vigilant one is ... that day may come?/ And if you are not there to give your dog guidance , it's up to him, to make "Good Choices!"

Crap Happens, and a 116 lbs of (proven) " Toddler hating", Working Line GSD vs a 40 lb toddler ... is not a contest!!!

Rocky was trained on a regular collar and leash and one day when the "crap went down" this is what happened.
German Shepherd Dog Forums - View Single Post - Breed differences in "socialization"

Now your dog is not a bite risk. But if one day you have a "crap happens" situation and you have to shout a "Life or Death" command to her and she has been "Harness Trained" ... you have no idea what she will do???

Just "Burn" the freaking harness!! You don't need it. IT sounds like you already have a good idea of what you need to do?? The harness is just a crutch.
 
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