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Ok, I have been trying to get boss to heel at all times on leash and it seems the only true way I get him to do this is with the prong collar. He still attempts to pull the first 5 minutes but he gets into his groove after a while. I have been trying to initiate the clicker training with this and in the house he gets it. he'll walk next to me the whole time looking up at me, but when we try to go outside, he is distracted by everything so much so, he doesn't even pay attention to me or the treats. Am I just impatient or is there something that I am missing?
 

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OHHH..please, please do not use the prong collar!!! I'm so sorry , but I can only imagine the pain it causes. If you want, alot of people use a simple chain collar for training, as this gives the dog the same audible reaction your clicker does....they "hear" the chain slip up a few spots, and learn very quickly that the sound means you
 

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[quote="AshleysMom\";p=\"103293":2ij7esbo]OHHH..please, please do not use the prong collar!!! I'm so sorry , but I can only imagine the pain it causes. If you want, alot of people use a simple chain collar for training, as this gives the dog the same audible reaction your clicker does....they "hear" the chain slip up a few spots, and learn very quickly that the sound means you
 

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We are attempting to train Cassius as well and are running into similar problems.  He'd rather chase a leaf in the wind then pay attention to his treat.  If you are doing clicker training just be patient.  Work in the house, change rooms, then move outside to the yard or the driveway, then onto the street.  Make sure he's very comfortable in each environment before moving to the next one with more external stimulus.  Also part of clicker training is to click and reward for attention and checking in.  Meaning you need to reward him just for paying attention to you and checking in with you when he is doing his thing.  We're taking an obedience class now that uses the clicker.  I am not sold on it 100% and it is tough because we have a rescue so we don't know how, if at all, he was trained before, and he is 8 months old so he's in his rebellious teenage years.  That being said we are going to continue with it and hope it works out.  We also have a dog walker a few days a week (my wife and I both work full time and I can't make it home midday everyday) and she is walking him with a European style lead/collar.  It is essentially a rope that acts like a choke chain and the leash combined.  (it is similar to the leads you'd see Cesar Millan use on his show)  We haven't used it yet ourselves because I want to be sure I put it on correctly and use it correctly so not to injure our pooch, but our dogwalker is also a trainer and an instructor and we trust her so we're gonna try it, along with the clicker training and hope the two combined work without being confusing. I'll let you know how it works out.
 

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Our trainer recommended the prong collar for training and said it is actually safer than the chain (choker) collar since the prong has a stop and the chain collar doesn't and is very dangerous.  She suggests starting with the prong, then going to a martingale and then finally a regular collar.
 

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I also used the prong on my Rottweiler.  He was 170 pounds, so you can imagine if he tried to pull and run after something.  It worked beautifully.  It really helped me and he wore it his whole life.  He was trained and would walk well and sit when I told him to, but if he saw a squirrel, forget about it!
 
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I see nothing wrong with a prong collar if you use it the right way.  If you have a 100 pound beast that is still learning not to pull then I can see that it is necessary.  Trainers wouldn't suggest using the prong collars if it was that much torture for the dog.  Choke chains as well.

I mean there is a point you can get to where you are abusing it, but there can be situations where it is needed.  Some dogs learn quicker and are more easily trained than others.  

We are still working hard with Binga on a leash.  She wants to just drag me, but is getting better.  When she pulls I stop in my tracks and she sits down.  She will get it eventually, but it can be frustrating.

I am probably going to invest in a gentle leader pretty soon.  I have heard good things about it.
 

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We are in an obedience class and they recommend one of 2 things. One being the one we use which is a harness where you clip in front of the chest. So when they start pulling, they will actually pull themself right around to face you (a complete 180) And how fun is that? Not very fun at all and it has worked wonders for us.

The other being the head harness which goes around the muzzle so you actually have a hold of their head and not neck. This was used on a Boxer on a recent episode of It's me or the Dog on Animal Planet. They dog was almost 100 pounds and it did great on him too.

These, IMO, are a good start. No need to jump right into using prongs and choke collars. I do understand that some dogs just need those, but there are other options.
 

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HAve you considred a Gentle Leader just for training and then going to a matingale once the pullind resides?
 

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Our last dog was a mix and she pulled hard, we used a harness that attaches in the front of the chest and it worked well to prevent us from being dragged but she never really learned to walk properly.  Not saying that it can't be done with that type of harness, I think it depends on the dog, the owner, and consistency.  Trainers all have different theories and ideas/techniques you just need to find what works for you and your dog and go with it.  From what I've seen the best tools are patience and consistency.

Like I said I am just in the beginning stages of this so I am trying to see what will work with our pooch.  Anyone else who has had success please let me know how you did it.
 

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I don't know what a prong collar is, but I use a double chained collar. This way, I started choking Mike if he was walking out of line. It has worked on him like a charm and he now knows that he would be choked if he ran away after the 'heel' command.

Some might consider this bad, but then Mike has never let me choke him after the first week. He loves to smell everything on the road when I take him to walk, but he knows that he'll get to smell everything even if he is on 'heel'.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
My_Harleigh\";p=\"103346 said:
We are in an obedience class and they recommend one of 2 things. One being the one we use which is a harness where you clip in front of the chest. So when they start pulling, they will actually pull themself right around to face you (a complete 180) And how fun is that? Not very fun at all and it has worked wonders for us.

The other being the head harness which goes around the muzzle so you actually have a hold of their head and not neck. This was used on a Boxer on a recent episode of It's me or the Dog on Animal Planet. They dog was almost 100 pounds and it did great on him too.

These, IMO, are a good start. No need to jump right into using prongs and choke collars. I do understand that some dogs just need those, but there are other options.
I saw that episode and Boss is acting just like that dog did on a walk. The wife just doesn't even try to walk him because he'll drag her. He's almost 90 lbs but I just want him to walk proper without having to use the prong. I have heard good things about the head harness, so maybe i'll go try that this weekend. I mean I own every other collar so why not complete my collection, lol.
 

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swaze\";p=\"103375 said:
[quote="My_Harleigh\";p=\"103346":x9mkb16h]We are in an obedience class and they recommend one of 2 things. One being the one we use which is a harness where you clip in front of the chest. So when they start pulling, they will actually pull themself right around to face you (a complete 180) And how fun is that? Not very fun at all and it has worked wonders for us.

The other being the head harness which goes around the muzzle so you actually have a hold of their head and not neck. This was used on a Boxer on a recent episode of It's me or the Dog on Animal Planet. They dog was almost 100 pounds and it did great on him too.

These, IMO, are a good start. No need to jump right into using prongs and choke collars. I do understand that some dogs just need those, but there are other options.
I saw that episode and Boss is acting just like that dog did on a walk. The wife just doesn't even try to walk him because he'll drag her. He's almost 90 lbs but I just want him to walk proper without having to use the prong. I have heard good things about the head harness, so maybe i'll go try that this weekend. I mean I own every other collar so why not complete my collection, lol.[/quote:x9mkb16h]

I was interested in the head harness first as another person in our class had one and seemed to be doing well with it. But my trainer didn't think it would work well with Boxers or any short nosed dogs because it would restrict their breathing. BUT, that is one thing I don't agree with her on because I tried it on her (after we bought the harness that clips on the chest) and she did perfectly fine with it. I have heard that those you really need to be sure they are adjusted correctly or it may fail. They need to be real snug (as any other restraint on a dog).

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
 

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i used a prong with the rubber tips on my american bully and my blue pit....worked wonderful since htey were both HUGE and pullers...

i dont use it now BUT as far as a chain choke..its all in the placement on the neck..it actually should be up behind the ears almost...and they really respnd.....you dont have to pull on them & it doesnt choke them..its just the placement of it ...

gentle leader is an awesome tool
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ky_IsisnOnyxsMama\";p=\"103399 said:
i used a prong with the rubber tips on my american bully and my blue pit....worked wonderful since htey were both HUGE and pullers...

i dont use it now BUT as far as a chain choke..its all in the placement on the neck..it actually should be up behind the ears almost...and they really respnd.....you dont have to pull on them & it doesnt choke them..its just the placement of it ...

gentle leader is an awesome tool
See thats one of the biggest issues I have with the choker. It never stays up around the ears when he's walking. It always falls around the base of his neck and with the way he pulls I just dont like it choking him there. Im gonna try the head harness this weekend, and if it works then thats cool, but im really gonna focus on the clicker and hope for the best.
 

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[quote="kiahsmom\";p=\"103324":31b4ltb0]Our trainer recommended the prong collar for training and said it is actually safer than the chain (choker) collar since the prong has a stop and the chain collar doesn't and is very dangerous.
 

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Patience!

Start slowly and reward often for being right next you. Also practice this off the leash around the house or in the yard. THe key for me was not going forward until I was ready to go forward...he had to know that if he got too far out ahead, he would NOT get to where he wanted to go; but if he remained close, he would get to go AND get treated. I used the sumo stop method alot as well with a martingale collar (letting the least "pop" when fully extended, mimics the restraints of a tie and the dog learns the length of the leash). Me and Hoosier started a block at a time when he was about 6 months old.
 

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I also advocate the gentle leader, Maple was HORRIBLE on leash we put her on the gentle leader (the head harness)  and she hated it! but it kept her in control on walks, every time she would try to pull it would turn her head back and then she'd have to look at me and refocus.  she has a very short muzzle and did not have any issues with restricted breathing, you don't have to have it snug on the muzzle but snug on the back of the head because that's where the pressure gets redistributed to.  Every time we went for a walk I had her on the gentle leader and after about 3 weeks I'm able to taker her for walks on a normal collar, I usually bring the GL with me anyways just in case but haven't used it in several weeks now.  I stopped treating on walks because she seems too distracted anyways to remember the treat.  If she does try to pull I make her sit and stay and refocus on me and then we'll try walking again, some days are better than other and some days a 5 min. walk turns in to 20 mins, but that's just how it goes ha ha
 

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The way to teach a dog to heel is on a loose leash.  First you need to teach them to walk on a soft, loose leash. That is taught with a flat leather collar and a 6 foot leather lead.  Dogs pull because we let them pull.  When they start to pull you STOP all movement until the dog stops moving and looks back at you.  If that doesn't happen you SWITCH DIRECTION and go the other way.  You also use a lot of SITS as you walk along to teach your dog to listen to you and stop and be still.   Sometimes you don't get too far at first, but you go a long distance just in a smaller area. Develope a relationship with your dog so he learns to listen to and trust your judgement. This is praise based positive training.  Any use of force such as prong collar doesn't inhance your relationship, it is a poor quick fix and soon they can also be pulling with this and you have ruined their feeling in their neck.  Dog will be dogs and are distracted more easily at a young age, unknown quick moving things, etc.  We have picked a guarding breed and this is part of their spirit and basically all dogs in general.  Any student of mine caught using any easy fix would be tarred and feathered.

As for how soon to start with a puppy.  Start easy and use the game, "follow me" with a loose leash and use your imagination to interest them in coming with you.  Is also a fun practice with an older pup or dog using a long line of 15 feet or so.  This will help develope that relationship and lead the way to a more formal heel down the road.

Nano
 
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