[Instructor]

My new puppy will be coming home May 30th but with the world still on lockdown with no real end in sight I'm starting to think about getting some training videos to practice at home.

I will be doing Obedience, nose work and Shutzhund (IPO/IGP) with my Boxer so those are the activities for which I'm looking for training help.

As I look around the internet 3 names keep coming up;
1) Ivan Balabanov
2) Dave Kroyer
3) Michael Ellis

Since training videos are not cheap I can't just go get everything out there and I'm sure that all of these guys have a different approach to each activity. I'm hoping some of you on this forum may have experience with using training videos and can offer recommendations and/or suggestions.

 

[Matt74]

I don't have experience with it, but I know Mike Suttle of Logan Haus Kennels does a puppy imprinting course of videos on his FB page.

Hopefully bte2 comments on this, I believe he went to a class of his. He could probably give you some advice.

 

[bte2]

Yes, I would recommend Mike Suttles (Logan Haus Kennels) puppy imprinting FB group. It's something like $25 and it's basically is workshop videoed. I ton of info on scent work and drive in general.
I find Ellis and Kroyer are simliar. Ivan is a bit different.
Eliis has a ton of free "bits" of info on youtube and lots of videos through leerburg.
Dave has a "membership" type thing.. like $10 a month to access visdoes.
Ivan's is train-per-view

 

[Instructor]

Yes I am considering Dave Kroyer's monthly subscription, even in Cdn $ it looks like a good deal.

I have had several people mention Ivan's video "possession games" but it's $157 US

I actually don't have a Facebook account (yep I'm the one) so I can't go that route

 

[bte2]

You can be like me, have a facebook page and keep it private, zero FB friends. That's what I do. That allowes me to follow a handfull of private dog sport groups and still have my privacy ( as much as I could hav with FB watching..lol). I

 

[Joeponds]

Instructor, On your new pup, is it 100% euro? sire and dam ? your getting a bargain with all the health testing that the breeder is doing imo. I just hate knocking the dog out for OFA if you ever do.. remember NO Acepromazine ever.

 

[Instructor]

Instructor, On your new pup, is it 100% euro? sire and dam ? your getting a bargain with all the health testing that the breeder is doing imo. I just hate knocking the dog out for OFA if you ever do.. remember NO Acepromazine ever.

Yes both parents are %100 Euro, that's what I was looking for as I prefer the stockier look of the Euro males plus even though neither of the parents are from woking lines Euros are generally better at Shutzhund which I intend to do with my dog.

And thank you, I have noted in several posts on this forum that Acepromazine is a big No No !

 

[Matt74]

Good luck. Its a tough road with a boxer, especially one that doesn't come from working lines. I tried with my guy, and he just didn't have it. He did have the tools for scent work, but not something I was too interested in. Learned a ton though from different people in the sporting world.

 

[bte2]

Like Matt said, if you truely want a boxer to do IPO/IPG work you need to be really picky about pup.
To be 100% honest, to be able to pull a working pup out of nonworking parents is really hard, the chances just aren't that great. Once you start adding in preferences (color, sex, markings) it makes it even more difficult.
IMHO to get a boxer that will excel in IPO (by excel, I mean get a IPO 1 title on the dog) you need to pick a breeder that is working in IPO.
If working in IPO isn't that important and doing nose work is just as good, then you will be fine.

I'm really not trying to a "Debbie Downer" but IPO isn't easy and not every dog is suited for.

 

[Instructor]

Like Matt said, if you truely want a boxer to do IPO/IPG work you need to be really picky about pup.
To be 100% honest, to be able to pull a working pup out of nonworking parents is really hard, the chances just aren't that great. Once you start adding in preferences (color, sex, markings) it makes it even more difficult.
IMHO to get a boxer that will excel in IPO (by excel, I mean get a IPO 1 title on the dog) you need to pick a breeder that is working in IPO.
If working in IPO isn't that important and doing nose work is just as good, then you will be fine.

I'm really not trying to a "Debbie Downer" but IPO isn't easy and not every dog is suited for.

Yes I completely understand that Boxers (or rather Boxer owners) can have a tough go in Shutzhund. My (potential) pup is almost 5 weeks old so I'm counting down the days to when he has his temperament test at 7 weeks. The breeder knows that I want to work him and has been very upfront with me about what kind of scores he will need to even have a chance at Shutzhund.
Fortunately the Shutzhund club I would be training at is a very laid back all breed club and they would be ok with us only working on the obedience and tracking if he doesn't have enough drive for the bite work

 

[196348]

Can boxers really be taken seriously in schutzhund or ipo it seems like the breed has too many physical limitations to really compete with other working breeds. In fact I have a really hard time understanding how they ever functioned as a serious catch dog. Germany is a cold country with harsh weather yet the boxer is basically an indoor dog its thin coat does little for the cold and the skull shape gives them no help in the heat. They certainly are cute though.

 

[[email protected]]

Boxers were used for protection and police work in Germany the Euro dogs have a longer coat to withstand the cold as well you can't compare the American bred dogs you see over here to the Euros they are different. Heat is still a challenge for both types though its not as hot over there as it is here. I worked with GSDs in Shutzhund work and they could be heat challenged as well handler needs to know their dogs limitations.

 

[196348]

Boxers were used for protection and police work in Germany the Euro dogs have a longer coat to withstand the cold as well you can't compare the American bred dogs you see over here to the Euros they are different. Heat is still a challenge for both types though its not as hot over there as it is here. I worked with GSDs in Shutzhund work and they could be heat challenged as well handler needs to know their dogs limitations.

They almost seem like 2 different breed at this point.

 

[bte2]

Can boxers really be taken seriously in schutzhund or ipo it seems like the breed has too many physical limitations to really compete with other working breeds. In fact I have a really hard time understanding how they ever functioned as a serious catch dog. Germany is a cold country with harsh weather yet the boxer is basically an indoor dog its thin coat does little for the cold and the skull shape gives them no help in the heat. They certainly are cute though.

Sure they can! Assuming you are judging them as a boxer and not a GSD or a Mal.
This also assuming you are picking a breeder that breeds for those quality.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=414013229414088

 

[chip18]

They almost seem like 2 different breed at this point.

Well ... "technically," a Euro Boxer and an American Line Boxer are two different Breeds.

But, Boxer's were in American long before the end of WWll, ie "Dogs of War," the short coat "notwithstanding" But ... no one cared (about Boxer's) then. They came back to American Shores "again," at the end of WWll. When troops returning home from Germany brought dog's back from Euro.

The first dog's already here were most likely pure Euro's?? (I don't know.) But I do know ... that when they came back again, after WWll, The Dog Men, Veterans of the time, felt that this dog can be popular in American, if we make some changes?? As they felt that the first generation of Dog's they brought back "were to fierce, to be let loose on, American Shores to an unsuspecting American Public!"

And so they "changed them," an today we have the American Line Boxer's. So history say's those guy's got it right ... for us.

Now how uh "Goofy," got to be a "Breed Characteristic??" Is now a mystery lost to time. :"(

So yeah "technically," two different dog's both physically and in personality?? And the AKC does not care?? Within the rules ... if it look's like a Boxer, it's a Boxer. JQP only encounter's it if they happen upon a Euro Boxer?? Cuz the difference in size ...is pretty apparent?? And don't even mention the Euro/American's, The show dog folk's are the one's fighting that battle.

But nope there seems to be no outcry to split them up as it were?? Unlike in the GSD World where "Working Line GSD's," don't seem to that well in "conformation," show dog's. Apparently the GSD guys from WWll saw no need to change uh anything with there dog's?? So to this day ... LOL, it's kinda like "Good Luck!" If you make that choice and you really don't know what your doing??

EIther line of Boxer's is a much better choice for JQP.

 

[chip18]

Boxers were used for protection and police work in Germany the Euro dogs have a longer coat to withstand the cold as well you can't compare the American bred dogs you see over here to the Euros they are different. Heat is still a challenge for both types though its not as hot over there as it is here. I worked with GSDs in Shutzhund work and they could be heat challenged as well handler needs to know their dogs limitations.

WIth heat of course you do have no know your dog. Now that said ... all that fur on a WL GSD does serve to protect them from heat. Uh despite the fact that they seem to chuck it, pretty much year round? So one had best have a pretty good vacuum cleaner!

Nonetheless, the US Military ... has ditched WL GSD's in Afghanistan, of MAl's. The military no longer uses WL GSD's, they have gone to all Mal's. A couple of other favor's are involved. But tolerating heat is one of them. For the record I will note, that the US Military,has ditched WL GSD's Mal's do better in the heat of Afghanistan then WL GSD's???

Now I will note that "Furry Dog's," can do just fine in high heat. The Afghanistan Hound, comes to mind. Not really a short haired dog to be sure??? But in a burst of speed they clock in at 43 mph??? I was stunned?? Still they are dumb as bricks as far as I know?? But credit due for high heat tolerance and yeah sheer freaking speed!

And ... I'll give the edge to the Mal for the heat tolerance. But for a "All Weather Dog?? " Search and Rescue Dog?? I'll take a WL GSD ... every time. Now my guy was just a "pet."

But he was still pretty amazing! Storm Warning, blinding freakin rain and high winds, and 13 below zero as cold as it got here ... if I said want to go for a walk?? He said ... sure no problem! LOL it was epic ... "Struddell," had to stay home. Rocky could care less about whatever the weather was.

Almost a perfect "All Weather S&R, dog," course a WLGSD S&R , you'd have to worry about keeping them from attacking, the subject, if they found them so you know, there is that.

LE K9 officer's don't really want to do search and research ... but if pressed into service ... they can. Not really an issue I had, just something I was aware of.

 

[196348]

Well ... "technically," a Euro Boxer and an American Line Boxer are two different Breeds.

But, Boxer's were in American long before the end of WWll, ie "Dogs of War," the short coat "notwithstanding" But ... no one cared (about Boxer's) then. They came back to American Shores "again," at the end of WWll. When troops returning home from Germany brought dog's back from Euro.

The first dog's already here were most likely pure Euro's?? (I don't know.) But I do know ... that when they came back again, after WWll, The Dog Men, Veterans of the time, felt that this dog can be popular in American, if we make some changes?? As they felt that the first generation of Dog's they brought back "were to fierce, to be let loose on, American Shores to an unsuspecting American Public!"

And so they "changed them," an today we have the American Line Boxer's. So history say's those guy's got it right ... for us.

Now how uh "Goofy," got to be a "Breed Characteristic??" Is now a mystery lost to time. :"(

So yeah "technically," two different dog's both physically and in personality?? And the AKC does not care?? Within the rules ... if it look's like a Boxer, it's a Boxer. JQP only encounter's it if they happen upon a Euro Boxer?? Cuz the difference in size ...is pretty apparent?? And don't even mention the Euro/American's, The show dog folk's are the one's fighting that battle.

But nope there seems to be no outcry to split them up as it were?? Unlike in the GSD World where "Working Line GSD's," don't seem to that well in "conformation," show dog's. Apparently the GSD guys from WWll saw no need to change uh anything with there dog's?? So to this day ... LOL, it's kinda like "Good Luck!" If you make that choice and you really don't know what your doing??

EIther line of Boxer's is a much better choice for JQP.

I hear a lot about the goofiness but i have never seen it first hand my dog does not display any of those traits so i have only seen it in videos. Also what is jqp?

 

[chip18]

I hear a lot about the goofiness but i have never seen it first hand my dog does not display any of those traits so i have only seen it in videos. Also what is jqp?

JQP ... is John Q Public, I suppose it's a pejorative for "Does Not have a Clue??"

Lot's of them on the Germanshepardforums ... . They tend to be "owner's," that don't have a clue??? With Dog's gone wrong??? Working Line GSD's, tend to not much care for stranger's, as a thing?? And it tends to be downhill from there happen's all the time ... still.

But the Goofy thing?? LOL "that," is the essence of the American Line Boxer! Aside from the "physical change," after WWll. American Line Boxer's are also known as ... "The Clown Price of the Dog World!" Goofy is a "breed characteristic." Now I don't know the how or why of how they did that?? But it's there.

About gee ... 20 year's ago I tried to find at least one American Line that was doing the LE thing?? I did find one but I was to late and that one day was retired.

I let it go cuz if there was one there must be more?? Uh No, most likely a combo of the wrong drives and just a time consuming "PIA," to deal with an AL Boxer?? A Mal or WL GSD is much less time consuming.

But ... the Euro's are a whole nother ball of wax as it were. And even in American ... there are still Boxer's doing the LE thing! They are all in the Midwest for some reason?? But most of them come from Boxers von Bachbett- Working German Boxers

Home of Cliff Von Grand Kevin. :

On Germanshepardforum for the most part most of those guys/girl's have no idea what a Euro Boxer is?? Most likely they had only seen AL Boxer's?? And from one of the Big Dog's over there his opinion was Boxer's were "Skinny and Insipid." But Cliff ... changed his mind! He said OK ... now that's a dog!

As for me well I don't know about the Euro's myself?? I have never had one and I have never met one?? So to me ... the Euro Boxer's are a WL GSD in a Boxer suit?? But they on here that have them say they are Goofy and they like people?? Those are two trait's my WL GSD ... did not have.

He was a great dog and came to my aid "unbid," when I slipped on ice while defending him! That was epic!

But my life with my Struddell, was much more what I expected with a Boxer. LOL ..."Skinny and Insipid" as she was, high speed, open desert bunny chasing in the summer heat, was her Job! And she was good at it ... as long as uh not catching one count's. A hard right into the brush and then back on the straight ... ditched her every time??? SHe never figured that trick out??

 

[196348]

Are there any videos of boxers passing the Schutzhund AD test. To compete in schutzhund in germany dogs must pass the ausdauerprufung or AD for short. It is a jog of 12.5(20km) miles at a speed of 7.7 to p.5 mph(12-15kmph). could a boxer really pass such a test?

 

[bte2]

Yes, AD & ZTP test. Though I'm not sure you'll find many videos of it.. not much to see.
I personally know people that have passed the test.

https://www.usboxer.org/breed-suitability

Seems you have a pretty low standard of what boxers can do ( assuming you pick the right genetics ).